Egg laying- how long before I get worried?

[tucc185]

My gravid female panther started digging around sunday. She was given a 14x14" pot with my usual mix of 65/35 topsoil/playsand and dug it all up over the next several days, but no eggs. Thinking she wasn't happy with the laying bin, I set her up in a trash barrel on Tuesday with over 2' of soil/playsand mix, a fake plant, and some pre-dug holes. Here it is Thursday night and while she has continued to dig, she hasn't laid yet. I've never experienced this with any of my females before, but how long can they go before laying? Usually as soon as I see them start to dig they will lay within 24hrs. Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[tucc185]

Anyone? at what point should I be worried?

 

[jannb]

Is this the little girl you got in Daytona? At the first sign of her declining I would get her to the vets. If you get her to the vet in time a vet can give oxytocin to induce egg laying before she becomes egg bound. Several injections of oxytocin over several days might be needed. If she still doesn’t lay the eggs surgery is the only other alternative. Surgery is very risky but at this point it’s the only choice. If your female is healthy and your husbandry is right she shouldn't become egg-bound unless she has a reproductive system deformity, deformed eggs, etc.

 

[tucc185]

She looks fine, is drinking, etc. but she started digging Sunday (maybe Saturday) and still hasn't laid her clutch. She has no interest in food (but that's normal for a female getting ready to lay IME) but is otherwise alert, active, and shows no sign of ill health. I just worry that it's been almost a week and she still hasn't laid them- I've never had a female go this long before.

FYI it's not the female I got in Daytona (she turned out to be just overfed on fatty foods like superworms- she's looking a lot better now), it's one I've had for some time now. Thanks for the help though!

 

[kinyonga]

Are you making sure that she doesn't see you watching her while she is digging?

 

[tucc185]

Yes, she's in an almost fully covered, opaque 40gal trash barrel. I peeked in this afternoon and she had dug and filled in yet another tunnel, so hopefully she laid them but I don't want to disrupt her in case she's not finished.

 

[kinyonga]

Is she actually intentionally filling in the tunnels?

 

[tucc185]

I think so. Like I said I haven't really had a chance to look in at her very much as I'm trying to just let her do her thing. Just by looking at her briefly, I can't be sure if she laid her clutch or not (she was kinda chunky to begin with).

 

[kinyonga]

If she is still digging then I would think that she has not laid the eggs. If she digs a hole and fills it in intentionally it can sometimes indicate eggbinding...but they usually only fill a hole in once in that case.

 

[tucc185]

Update: She has not laid any eggs yet, and she seems to have stopped digging for the moment (no digging since early yesterday afternoon). She also took a cricket I threw in with her as an experiment and now she seems to be eating/drinking normally. I've put her back in her enclosure and gave her an extra long misting to help hydrate her and put a bunch of crickets in her feeding cup so she can take them if she's hungry.

Is it possible that she was just digging test tunnels and isn't quite ready to lay yet? Or is she most likely experiencing egg binding and will need oxytocin? If anyone with experience with panthers in particular could weigh in on that I would really appreciate it. I've never had a female be this...indecisive about laying a clutch of eggs before.

 

[gacpro]

I'm experiencing the same thing. I have two gravid females (Nosy Be), one of them "Sassy" has been bred once before and laid 21 eggs on 8/1, this is her second clutch from the first breeding. She's been digging holes for 2 days but hasn't laid anything that I can tell. i weighed her today and she is 4 grams lighter than she was yesterday. I was wondering if she could have laid a very small clutch. She seems to be very active. It's been 38 days since she laid the last clutch.
The other one "Zoe" was bred on 8/4, that makes it 35 days and she has not shown any sign of digging, she's very fat and eating normally. At what point do I take them to the vet for some stimulation?

 

[djfishygillz]

Update: She has not laid any eggs yet, and she seems to have stopped digging for the moment (no digging since early yesterday afternoon). She also took a cricket I threw in with her as an experiment and now she seems to be eating/drinking normally. I've put her back in her enclosure and gave her an extra long misting to help hydrate her and put a bunch of crickets in her feeding cup so she can take them if she's hungry.

Is it possible that she was just digging test tunnels and isn't quite ready to lay yet? Or is she most likely experiencing egg binding and will need oxytocin? If anyone with experience with panthers in particular could weigh in on that I would really appreciate it. I've never had a female be this...indecisive about laying a clutch of eggs before.

If she is digging she is ready. Honestly what I do(when I see them dig), is leave them in a big 10 gallon bucket with half moist sand. Dig a small starter tunnel. And leave them in there until they lay. It has never taken longer than a day. And if all they have is sand, then all they have on their mind is laying, not hiding from you, not food, just laying. It has never failed on me yet and every female has been perfect after besides be tired from laying.

One thing I will also do is not cover the lid completely but almost all they way. So they can tell the difference from day and night. I have had females lay during day and night so I don't know if that matter but it is just something that seems to speed them along for me.

Good luck with your girl!

 

[gacpro]

Well I found one very soft egg lying on top of the soil last night. She still weighs about the same, maybe 4-5 grams lighter than before. Today she is in the laying bin again, hopefully will lay them all today. Has anyone ever experienced their Cham laying eggs on the top and not buried?

 

[djfishygillz]

Well I found one very soft egg lying on top of the soil last night. She still weighs about the same, maybe 4-5 grams lighter than before. Today she is in the laying bin again, hopefully will lay them all today. Has anyone ever experienced their Cham laying eggs on the top and not buried?

I have before. It normally means the soil or sand is to wet, or to dry. Do you have her laying in sand? Sand is the only thing ALL of my chams have ever laid in.
The sand should be wet enough but also dry enough to make a snowball with without it collapsing.

 

[gacpro]

I have both play sand and top soil in separate pails. I've done the squeeze test and I think the consistency is good. I've peeked in a couple times today and she's been digging, been in the tunnels and been climbing around. I have her covered and just giving her private time. I'm glad to see she continues to dig and appears to be doing fine. Hopefully she will lay them all today and I can quit worrying.

 

[djfishygillz]

I have both play sand and top soil in separate pails. I've done the squeeze test and I think the consistency is good. I've peeked in a couple times today and she's been digging, been in the tunnels and been climbing around. I have her covered and just giving her private time. I'm glad to see she continues to dig and appears to be doing fine. Hopefully she will lay them all today and I can quit worrying.

Best thing is to leave em alone lol. If they catch one glimpse of you the will just stop sometimes if their head isn't to deep in the sand.

Glad to hear she is digging though!

 

[jannb]

Mike, how's your girl doing?

 

[gacpro]

Well today I found "Sassy" lifeless in the branches of her enclosure. She seemed fine last night but this afternoon I checked to see how she was coming and found she had died. It must have been too much for her to handle, maybe eggbound. I'll dig up the soil tonight to see if there were any eggs layed. very dissapointing, didn't expect to feel this sadness

 

[Trypp]

I'm sorry for your loss. I have 2 veiled chameleons and understand the sadness.

 

[pssh]

Unfortunately the laying a single or couple eggs randomly can be a sign of egg binding. I'm sorry you lost her.