Emergency! Cham dieing, what do I do?!

[Meghan]

I started a thread a week ago when my cham wasnt to bad just weirdly squinting, only three people commented but I got no answers, this is now an emergency.
Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon - Jacksons, male, Atleast 7 months old
• Handling - very rarley
• Feeding - Crickets, and meal worms, has not been eating for a week
• Supplements - Reptivite once in awhile and calcium without d3 once a week
• Watering - Have a litter dripper that goes all day, Ive been spraying every few hours to keep him hydrated
• Fecal Description - None? if any its small brown bits
• History - He had to be flown from downsouth to Alaska, so that may or may not cause a little stress

Cage Info:
• Cage Type - Screen 30x16x16
• Lighting - I have a double dome light, everyday 65 watt bulb? also R zilla tropical 25 t8 15watt
• Humidity - temp is between 80 and 72, basking is 92F, down to 68 at night. humidity is around 50% at the bottom of tank
• Plants - pothos
• Placement - top of the cage is around 4 or 5 ft off the ground
• Location - Alaska, panhandle, cold and soggy.
Current Problem cham sleeps almost 24/7 gapes a lot but I dont hear any noise or gasping. He has not eaten in almost a week or drank really, Ive been able to drop a few drops of water in his mouth but he wont drink other than that. Today I found him balancing his body head down off a branch not holding on to anything, I picked him up and he did crawl a little bit not much. I noticed a light green to white patch on his belly and part of it is black. I took pictures but our power is out so its not a good picture. I need help ASAP I do not have a reptile vet in town nor can I go anywhere to see one, anything I can order to help him will take atleast a week to get here so I need help now, I think its already to late but any answers at all are helpful

 

[Carlton]

• Supplements - Reptivite once in awhile and calcium without d3 once a week
• Watering - Have a litter dripper that goes all day, Ive been spraying every few hours to keep him hydrated
• Lighting - I have a double dome light, everyday 65 watt bulb? also R zilla tropical 25 t8 15watt
• Humidity - temp is between 80 and 72, basking is 92F, down to 68 at night. humidity is around 50% at the bottom of tank
Current Problem cham sleeps almost 24/7 gapes a lot but I dont hear any noise or gasping. He has not eaten in almost a week or drank really, Ive been able to drop a few drops of water in his mouth but he wont drink other than that. Today I found him balancing his body head down off a branch not holding on to anything, I picked him up and he did crawl a little bit not much. I noticed a light green to white patch on his belly and part of it is black. I took pictures but our power is out so its not a good picture. I need help ASAP I do not have a reptile vet in town nor can I go anywhere to see one, anything I can order to help him will take atleast a week to get here so I need help now, I think its already to late but any answers at all are helpful

Well, there are several things wrong with your husbandry so start fixing them ASAP.

Supplementation is off: You should be using plain calcium very lightly every feeding. Calcium with D3 maybe once every 10 days. Reptivite once a month to 6 weeks max.

What are you feeding your insects? Dusting can only do so much. If your feeders are not being gutloaded correctly they are not very nutritious at all.

Cage is too dry and too warm. Dehydrated chams can't or won't eat well.

I think your lighting isn't great. The regular light bulb is fine for basking, but the R Zilla light isn't producing much useable UV. I have not used these bulbs but heard others who do having problems with their chams.

Not sure about the light patch on his belly, but I do know that chams who are close to death often show large patches of lighter or darker skin in odd places.

It could also be a sign that his intestines are impacted or damaged in some way. I just don't know.

So, what to do now? I'd get him drinking as much as you can, but add some Pedialyte or bug "juice" (crushed bug abdomens which contain some nutrients) to it and try to get him to take it off a dropper by hand. This may give him enough energy to keep going until you can improve his setup.

 

[chameleonkev]

Everything Carlton has surgested is pretty much spot on, all I can think to add us get a critical care kit, it's a tube of liquid you shoot into the mouth, you have to way your chameleon so you no the correct amount to use, this will give him all the vitamins an nutrients he will need to give him some energy and hopefully pull him self back to good health, but relly look into gut loading your crickets and whatever other feeders you use else it will happen again and again

 

[Miss Lily]

First of all, I am sorry your guy is unwell. I suspect your lighting has something to do with it. 92 is way too hot for a Jackson, their basking should be 85 tops. I try to keep my Jackson's basking at about 82 at the most. They also require a drop in temps of at least 10 degrees at night time. Most people use either a ReptiSun or ReptiGlo 5.0 UV tube/linear bulb and a 40 or 60W (depending on room ambient temps) to create the required basking temp. I use a ReptiGlo 5.0 and a 40W desk lamp bulb set up over one corner of the cage.

Carlton, I would say less is more as far as supplementing Jacksons is concerned. I dust Monty's feeders once a week with plain calcium, once a week with Reptivite (No D3) and once every 6 weeks with Reptivite (WITH D3). This has seen him grow strong and healthy, and I pay attention to gutloading as well as I possibly can.

I am not sure what the white patch is, but you say he has been gaping - is he basking when he does this? They don't always move to a cooler part of the cage when they get too hot. He could easily have burnt his belly whilst basking with those temps. Jacksons come from cooler, more humid mountain regions. It took me a long time to understand that he is actually ok to be kept much cooler as I was previously used to Veileds that like it hotter.

 

[ChamFreak]

How long ago did you move him? You said he flew correct?

I think the lighting has a big part of this, as well as suppliments

 

[Miss Lily]

Everything Carlton has surgested is pretty much spot on, all I can think to add us get a critical care kit, it's a tube of liquid you shoot into the mouth, you have to way your chameleon so you no the correct amount to use, this will give him all the vitamins an nutrients he will need to give him some energy and hopefully pull him self back to good health, but relly look into gut loading your crickets and whatever other feeders you use else it will happen again and again

Be careful when administering any liquid to a chameleon. 'Shooting' it into the mouth may cause the chameleon to aspirate it rather than swallow. Usually you can get them to drink by dropping a few drops on to the tip of the nose/mouth. I know with male Jacksons it's more difficult as their horn tends to get in the way.

For now, if you haven't got a lower wattage bulb, then move the basking light further away from the cage top to lower the temps.

 

[Elizadolots]

How far from the roof of the enclosure are the lights? My first thought was, as Miss Lilly says, that it might be a burn. Your temperatures are definitely too hot.

That looks like a good UVB bulb, though.

 

[Jbujarski]

First of all, I am sorry your guy is unwell. I suspect your lighting has something to do with it. 92 is way too hot for a Jackson, their basking should be 85 tops. I try to keep my Jackson's basking at about 82 at the most. They also require a drop in temps of at least 10 degrees at night time. Most people use either a ReptiSun or ReptiGlo 5.0 UV tube/linear bulb and a 40 or 60W (depending on room ambient temps) to create the required basking temp. I use a ReptiGlo 5.0 and a 40W desk lamp bulb set up over one corner of the cage.

Carlton, I would say less is more as far as supplementing Jacksons is concerned. I dust Monty's feeders once a week with plain calcium, once a week with Reptivite (No D3) and once every 6 weeks with Reptivite (WITH D3). This has seen him grow strong and healthy, and I pay attention to gutloading as well as I possibly can.

I am not sure what the white patch is, but you say he has been gaping - is he basking when he does this? They don't always move to a cooler part of the cage when they get too hot. He could easily have burnt his belly whilst basking with those temps. Jacksons come from cooler, more humid mountain regions. It took me a long time to understand that he is actually ok to be kept much cooler as I was previously used to Veileds that like it hotter.

^this. Like said Jackson's have a problem with over supplementation so gutloading I essential since they get less supplements. I usually don't let my basking temps get above 80 for mine.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lKTbUaOQ0aA
This video will get you in the right direction, lengthy but well worth it

 

[Meghan]

He was flown up here about a 8 to 9 months ago, he gapes at night when its cool also, so I dont think its fully the heat, that 92f was from when I had the heat in the room cranked up do to it being freezing cold outside, Ill check again today and see what a normal temp is. The rest of the tank is more in the 80s. I can change the light to a lower watt right away though. I bought a reptiglow 5.0 but I dont see him surviving long enough for it to get here. He wont open his mouth to drink from a dropper I have to drop it in while he is gaping, Im afraid he will drown by doing this though. I gutload my crickets and mealies with random veggies, carrots and asparagus and leafy greens, whatever I happen to have on hand. He was eating very well and drinking very well before his eyes just closed last week and I think he stopped because he couldnt see, now his eyes are open but hes to sick to want to eat. I did just move him downstairs and maybe he got stressed but I cant think of anything thats suddenly changed. I bought that light like I said, rephashy with calcium and a cricket feeder also from rephashy, I think. I can make all these improvements but I dont think hes going to survive this, Ill try pedyalite when I get home today, would it be ok to do water pedyalite and bug juice? I can only get one drop per gape before he runs away from me so I need to make them count

 

[Carlton]

Carlton, I would say less is more as far as supplementing Jacksons is concerned. I dust Monty's feeders once a week with plain calcium, once a week with Reptivite (No D3) and once every 6 weeks with Reptivite (WITH D3). This has seen him grow strong and healthy, and I pay attention to gutloading as well as I possibly can.

You are totally correct...for some reason I was thinking panthers while writing this. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[Carlton]

The rest of the tank is more in the 80s. Ill try pedyalite when I get home today, would it be ok to do water pedyalite and bug juice? I can only get one drop per gape before he runs away from me so I need to make them count

He's in a tank? The big problem with tanks is that they can get too warm overall, don't provide different levels of temp and humidity for the cham to move between (unless they are huge, and most tanks are simply too small), and they can stay too warm all night. Chams, especially montane species like jackson's, must have a temp drop at night to the mid 60s. Also, without much air flow tanks tend to develop stagnant air with higher levels of bacteria and mold. This ends up causing respiratory problems which may be why he was gaping at night.

If you keep the room at the same temp 24/7 and it doesn't cool down to the mid 60s at night, it will be too warm for him, he's going to have a lot of problems.

Yes, Pedialyte with some bug juice is OK. The Pedialyte/water can make the mixture thin enough to go through a dropper or syringe. You may have to hold on to him to get more liquid into his mouth. It is a stress, but may be necessary to keep him going.

 

[Elizadolots]

For a Jackson's I think--as noted--a basking temp of 80-82 and a "floor of the cage" temp of 70 would be the norm. Night time, the whole enclosure should probably be around 60-65 degrees (it could easily be cooler).

You mentioned having a tank...that makes me think it's warmer than you know in the enclosure. I'm sure you need the glass because of humidity issues, but you're going to have to watch the temperatures carefully. I would seriously consider trying a 25 watt bulb.

 

[BocaJan]

Jacksons enjoy cooler temps then other species and like water, water, water. Mist him often and don't let him sit close to his basking lamp. Make sure he has lots of foliage in his cage to maintain the humidity and so he can get a little drink now and then when you aren't misting. They also like to clean their eyes often so when you mist you will see them roll their eyes to clean them before drinking.

 

[Meghan]

Sorry cage sounds odd to me and tank is misleading, hes in a fully screen enclosure, the back of it is cork bark, I got it for looks and because he liked to climb on it. I have a dripper going all day at a pretty rapid drip, theres a bin at the bottom that catches the water and theres a pothos in a probably to large pot. Ill attach a pic of that, this pic is a few months old and that pothos has mostly filled the cage. I thought those two would up the humidity but it appears they do not. I used to spray atleast 4 times a day, now I spray him every couple of hours, room temp water although Ive been doing warm water latley, I use water condition drops because I dont know the condition of our town water. Before he got sick he was on a good cycle of crawling around hunting and basking, very lively guy, all day and at night he would go to upper lower half of cage and sleep on the same branch every day, same time, like clock work. I left the lights on from 8 to 10 which was to long but now have them on a timer so that he gets 8 to 8pm everyday. I use two different digital temp/humidity readers in his cage. I live literally in one of wettest place in the world so I wrongly assumed he would not have a humidity problem, I think our super cold winter and use of heaters may be drying? I can buy a room humidifier and set it next to him tonight. Ill also attach a new picture of him from a few days ago, he sleeps most of the day, he does not hold his head up like he used to it rest on a vine when he naps, thats a very bad sign I know. He has been napping in the weirdest ways, I dont know if he gets to weak and rest where he is? I find him hanging upside down by his back feet and tail like a bat, alseep with his legs spread eagle, or twisted around in odd ways. In the pic you can see the pothos has really filled in. I cant get to him again until noon for the bug juice. Im really embarrassed that this happened, I feel awful I didnt realize fully how hard cham life is, I knew it was hard but there just so delicate. Also I have awful luck, or maybe just husbandry, I kill every thing I touch, every plant, flower, hermit crab and now cham Opps I guess I cant use the same picture twice? So heres a tank pic, top half is now full of pothos and here is the link to my other post if you need that info or the pic of him sick. Im so if this was to long of a post, and if the info was useless or not, I just dont want to miss anything https://www.chameleonforums.com/jacksons-wont-open-eyes-fully-82410/index2.html

 

[Carlton]

I thought those two would up the humidity but it appears they do not. I live literally in one of wettest place in the world so I wrongly assumed he would not have a humidity problem, I think our super cold winter and use of heaters may be drying? I can buy a room humidifier and set it next to him tonight.

I live in SE AK too, and because our climate is wet, it's also cold, so we heat our homes most of the year. The colder it is in winter the more drying our heat sources tend to be because they run more often. In fact, as I look outdoors the rain is mixed with snow at the moment in May. Heating means drying...the climage indoors even here just isn't going to be humid enough for a cham. Also remember you are using a concentrated spot light on the cage and that also dries it out. Considering they prefer an air humidity of at least 60% with periods much higher. A human house at that level would be like your bathroom after a hot showers.

You can use a humidifier...I'd suggest an ultrasonic type that produces fine mist. You can attach pvc pipe or flexible vinyl tubing to the spout of the humidifier and aim the mist right into the cage. Then control the cycles of fog with a multiple setting lamp appliance timer. Works great!

 

[Meghan]

Our house is constantly steamy from showers/washer/dryer/dishwasher due to poor ventilation, the cham just happens to be in dry backroom His current cage due to the pothos is to heavy, but assume he surives, would it be crazy to have a smaller mesh cage to bring him into the hot steamy bathroom during my showers? then put him back into has cage after? Not in the shower with me just the room. Im having trouble setting up a good drainage system or I would get a auto mister set up, although a humidify with a tube is pretty similiar I imagine haha. I dont mind pouring money into this cham, I need to spend money so this seemed like a good fun thing to spoil. I just need to make sure im buying the right things. Also we dont use the heaters that blow hot air, we have flat wall heater that radiates heat out and a smaller plug in one that heats water internally. I feel like a captain crashing my own ship, then begging for help, while also writing a ship log as I watch it sink. Thank you to everyone for responding and also for the help. Ill try to keep this updated as cham and I go along

 

[Elizadolots]

Okay, that's better than the picture my mind drew based on "tank"....get your temperatures down. That's probably the first order of business.

I can't tell from the picture how close he can get to the lights but I'm very concerned that he might have gotten burned.

You say he's taking naps. If you mean he is sleeping during the day, that's a problem.

*edited to respond, you posted while I was composing**

would it be crazy to have a smaller mesh cage to bring him into the hot steamy bathroom during my showers? then put him back into has cage after? Not in the shower with me just the room.

Nope...nothing crazy about that at all.

 

[Carlton]

Our house is constantly steamy from showers/washer/dryer/dishwasher due to poor ventilation, the cham just happens to be in dry backroom His current cage due to the pothos is to heavy, but assume he surives, would it be crazy to have a smaller mesh cage to bring him into the hot steamy bathroom during my showers? then put him back into has cage after? Not in the shower with me just the room. Im having trouble setting up a good drainage system or I would get a auto mister set up, although a humidify with a tube is pretty similiar I imagine haha. I dont mind pouring money into this cham, I need to spend money so this seemed like a good fun thing to spoil. I just need to make sure im buying the right things. Also we dont use the heaters that blow hot air, we have flat wall heater that radiates heat out and a smaller plug in one that heats water internally. I feel like a captain crashing my own ship, then begging for help, while also writing a ship log as I watch it sink.

I know it seems that your house just must be humid enough from all the appliances, but I'd suggest if you really measure the overall humdity level it won't be as high as you think for as long as the cham cage needs to be. Get a decent hygrometer and move it around. It may surprise you. Believe me, I have dealt with the same issues in the same climate. Unless your heating source actually releases steam into the room it is going to dry out the air. Wood stoves are the worst, but all heating sources add to the problem. I have circulating hot water heat too, and the house gets as dry as 20% RH in winter. But, there are several things I do to keep my cages humid and they do work:

Drape some plastic sheeting on back and/or sides of the screen cage to help stabilize humidity after misting. Also, the sheeting provides more surfaces to catch and hold droplets until they evaporate. This will help a lot.

Get and use a humidifier. If you get a type of humidifier that has a spout to release the fog, measure the diameter of the opening and get some hose, tubing, or pvc pipe to match it. Make a spout extension (find something you can wedge into the spout so you can take it apart for cleaning) so you can direct the fog into the cham's cage...you'll probably have to make a cut in the cage mesh for this spout or the droplets will just collect on the mesh and make a mess below. It works best to put the spout up as high in the cage as possible so the fog pours down onto all the plants. Then, do some trial and error with a multiple setting timer to see how often and how long your fogging cycles need to last to keep the cage at a moderate humidity level (60%). Measure the RH level during, after, and before each fogging session to figure out what cycles you'll need. This is hard to predict, as your room humidity and temp will affect it.

 

[Meghan]

Sadly I know thats a bad sign, I actually think its less napping and more of dying unfortunatley. How low of a watt can I go while still keeping it warm? I had a blue day light, it was much cooler but someone said that it might hurt his eyes, and maybe that would cause squinting but I changed it last week and hes only gotten worse. If the room stays around 70s can I take the basking light out completley for a day to see if thats bothering him? The dome sits on top of the cage but the bulb is about 3 inches above the mesh. He hasnt done it latley but when he first started squinting he was climb circles around the light. It really doesnt seem like a burn it looks like his color changed, its not hot to the touch on his belly and it dosent feel differently? Hes actually almost cold now. Ill give an update when I check on him in a bit. Could he be gettin sicker because somethings still really wrong or just because he went to long without food and water? Is it ever ok to try and open his mouth for a bead of bug juice? He just refuses to drink from the dropper, although sometimes he grabs for it

 

[pssh]

Since you can't get him to a vet, I would try reptaid and see if it helps. Temps, like others have said, need to be brought way down. Have you tried showering him? Use the shower head water and have it bounce off the wall of the shower so that the spray mists him while he sits on a plant. The spray should be lukewarm.