expired supplements safe??
- Thread starter tdotcham
- Start date
I can't speak specifically to reptile vitamins but I know that for human medicines expiration dates are a made up joke. As long as it is not a suspension then most medicines have a 97 percent or more effectiveness after even 15 years of sitting around at room temperature. I would be willing to guess that powdered supplements are pretty similar.
Syn
Avid Member
I dunno, smackey, I do remember someone mentioning to me that D3 degrades over time.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source...goASEloDPDwAAAKoEBU_Q_psW&fp=6480ba044cf61dc3
Tried doing a google search but no quick results were found. Perhaps someone else will have more luck - I'm not on the best internet connection right now.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source...goASEloDPDwAAAKoEBU_Q_psW&fp=6480ba044cf61dc3
Tried doing a google search but no quick results were found. Perhaps someone else will have more luck - I'm not on the best internet connection right now.
The only information I could find on vitamin d or D3 breaking down is due to high heat or high humidity over an extended period of time. I know vitamin C in solution breaks down over time, hence the reason sailors got scurvy. But I really can't find any reliable source saying stored at room temperature out of a UV exposure it would break down. Nor can I come up with any reason why it would. Most vitamins and minerals are very stable in powder/pill form.
ColorCham427
Avid Member
I know on the dart frog forums they are strict about throwing away supplements once they have been opened for over 6 months.....
joshua n janet
New Member
this is a good case
ChromaChameleons
New Member
My first inclination would be to ask, " why put an expiry date on anything unless its important".
fluxlizard
Avid Member
If the d3 degrades, it won't harm the lizard, other than the fact that the lizard just won't get the d3 it would have gotten had it taken the supplement when it was fresh.
It could probably still be useful when the lizard is kept out of doors during the summer months.
Vitamins purchased prior to expiration can be stored in the refrigerator or freezer and the shelf life extended dramatically.
It could probably still be useful when the lizard is kept out of doors during the summer months.
Vitamins purchased prior to expiration can be stored in the refrigerator or freezer and the shelf life extended dramatically.
fluxlizard
Avid Member
You would be surprised what is done to make products more marketable.
Nobody regulates expiration dates on reptile vitamins. They are placed voluntarily on the label and the manufacturer decides the date. Given the choice between two similar products, as a consumer would you be more or less likely to buy a vitamin with an expiration date printed on the container or the one sitting on the shelf next to it without the expiration date?
My comments should not be misinterpreted to mean that the dates may safely be ignored. Only that they should be considered with a grain of salt. Given the choice, I would certainly go with the not-expired date.
edit- Expired vitamins are very unlikely to harm your lizard but it is also possible that they won't really help your lizard either, and if you are counting on them to provide some d3 for example, it is easy enough to get fresh elsewhere or order some fresh online without risking the expired one at the local market.
edit- for that matter- the very best are freshly manufactured. They begin degrading right after manufacture, and no guarantees that they are not shipped in hot trucks or stored in hot warehouses somewhere before moving on to your local pet shop.
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Glad I was able to atleast give a heads up to some locals in toronto who shop there. I believe my buddy is going to head there today to grab pinky's for his Tegu... so I'll go in and exchange it today. Now I have to get an enormous jar of it which will likely expire before I run out regardless...
ChromaChameleons
New Member
I can't , for 1 minute, believe that a manufacturer would put an arbitrary expiration date on a container of supplements. If that were the case, they could just set the expiry dates to Oct 2025 and not have this issue.
fluxlizard
Avid Member
The expiration date is not defined by law (or even necessary on the label by law). So, if by arbitrary you mean without legal regulation, you are incorrect.
If, however, by arbitrary you mean they do not make a reasonable assumption based on what they know- then of course they do make a reasonable date. I hope nobody misinterprets what I was saying to mean they pick a random date or something! However storage, as noted previously, makes a big difference in viability of the product- it it's kept hot it breaks down faster, cold it lasts longer.
At the same time- you might be interested to read up on research examining the nutritional analysis of many of these products- it's been several years since I looked into this stuff, but at that time some reptile vitamins did not line up in reality to what the manufacturer claims on the label . In one case (I won't drop names but you might find it if you google- the brand is long-running and internationally respected) 4 of the minerals on the label were not even present when the product was analyzed by a third party.
If you cannot always count on the analysis on the label- kind of makes the expiration date a little less written in stone.
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ChromaChameleons
New Member
Regardless of whether expiration dates are regulated or not , claims made by a manufacturer on such issues do require truth of advertised claim. I think you were eluding to that also.
I would expect that any expiration date would be the earliest date of degradation based on the recommended storage temperatures for such products. But an expiration of 2007 would not be close IMO.
If its 2+ years out of date , I'd toss it !
I would expect that any expiration date would be the earliest date of degradation based on the recommended storage temperatures for such products. But an expiration of 2007 would not be close IMO.
If its 2+ years out of date , I'd toss it !
fluxlizard
Avid Member
I agree with you there 100%!
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
How much supplement to use depends on many factors.
But just generally speaking, assuming yours is an adult veiled or panther kept indoors, you can use the miner-al indoors (the one with D3) once or twice weekly . Rep-cal with D3 should not be used that often. See my previously provided links for more info.
BillyGunz
New Member
listen to this
i wouldn't think too use them either, but what is weird, Is that i was just at the National Breeders Expo. There was a both there selling blow out zoo med products cheat and the supplements were out of date. I overheard him telling customers that they are go for 3 years past the date on the bottle as long as we aren't open.
i wouldn't think too use them either, but what is weird, Is that i was just at the National Breeders Expo. There was a both there selling blow out zoo med products cheat and the supplements were out of date. I overheard him telling customers that they are go for 3 years past the date on the bottle as long as we aren't open.
hun73r
Member
Proctor and Gamble did a study of the degradation of vitamin D3 over time. In their specific test they subjected it to high heat and high humidity. They found the following:
The most significant degradation of 30% loss was
observed at 60ºC/25% RH in 12 months. Only about 4% degradation occurred at 25ºC during the same period of time.
Their samples appear to be suspended in a liquid so I am not sure what the difference would be if it were powder form. But assuming the same it and we assumed a room temperature of 77 and a relative humidity of 25% you would lose 4% efficacy each year but there is no telling how long before the expiration date it was produced so if it is 3 years past the expiration date it would be at least 12% less effective with the above assumptions.
The most significant degradation of 30% loss was
observed at 60ºC/25% RH in 12 months. Only about 4% degradation occurred at 25ºC during the same period of time.
Their samples appear to be suspended in a liquid so I am not sure what the difference would be if it were powder form. But assuming the same it and we assumed a room temperature of 77 and a relative humidity of 25% you would lose 4% efficacy each year but there is no telling how long before the expiration date it was produced so if it is 3 years past the expiration date it would be at least 12% less effective with the above assumptions.
VeiledOwner87
New Member
well... would you drink expired milk? or eat expired yoguart? eat expired cheese? talking medical, would you take expired perscriptions? think about it? they have expiry dates for a reason. now from all the chirping going on, it seems like the store shelves had these way over dated supplies for retail. imo, the store should be notified, and if this has been a scam to rid of their products without ordering fresh ones, inspectors for businesses should be contacted and sent without warning.
you should just go there open all the expired suppliments and spill them on the floor.
you should just go there open all the expired suppliments and spill them on the floor.
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