(EXTREMELY GRAPHIC) Self veiled necropsy

[Hakai]

My chameleon died and I cannot afford to have a necropsy done. So I did it myself. I don't really know what to look for so maybe you can help. Despite my lack of knowledge, I can tell that something went really wrong. Like there should not be that giant glob of goop coming out of him. I'm going to break it open outside (or not) depending on what you guys think.

This is the initial thread if anyones interested. https://www.chameleonforums.com/horrible-news-105747/

(More pictures to come, only 5 allowed each post)

 

[Hakai]

some pics taken with flash some without. The purpose of this thread is an attempt to find out the cause of death to my cham. Pictures taken with my crappy digital camera.

 

[Sinfulintent]

Interested to see the outcome of this

 

[Fretfreak13]

Wow. I'm no vet and I know nothing about cham anatomy, but I want to commend you on a beautiful dissection! What do you do for your job? I've done a few in high school and butchered my specimens.

Sorry you lost your little one, but its nice to know you care enough to do this (and have the stomach to).

 

[Miss Lily]

I'm so sorry you lost your chameleon. I know I wouldn't be able to cut any of mine open. Check out the anatomy photos in this thread on a different forum - it may help understand what all the organs are.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums.co.uk/chameleons/20677-chameleon-anatomy-warning-graphic-images.html

 

[Hakai]

Wow. I'm no vet and I know nothing about cham anatomy, but I want to commend you on a beautiful dissection! What do you do for your job? I've done a few in high school and butchered my specimens.

Sorry you lost your little one, but its nice to know you care enough to do this (and have the stomach to).

Lol is it really that good? Thanks. I have nothing passed high school biology either. I just read a link that someone gave me in a previous link. I guess it worked out well.

 

[EKEKO]

I absolutely commend your spirit and it truly is the best to rule out reasons for this unsuspected death. I have seen a similar blob produced by impaction. Can't wait to know what happened. Sorry you have to go through this but because of it many will learn.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Here is another source for necropsy images to help you identify which organs you're seeing. http://www.chameleonnews.com/02MayGreek.html

If you're talking about the big dark blob that's laying on the table in the last two pictures, that's the intestinal tract. The intestinal tract is normally dark in chameleons so the color is not concerning, however the size of the gut looks much larger than it should be. Is it firm when you squeeze it? You can cut it open and see if there is something inside causing an obstruction.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Lovereps]

So sorry that your cham died.
Bravo to you for doing your own necropsy.
You have nothing to lose by cutting open everything.
Sometimes you find very interesting things--like lungworms in a cham who never exhibited any respiratory problems.
I found large numbers of parasitic worms in the digestive tract of a new cham which died shortly after arrival.
At the very least, those of us who can stomach the pics get a good look at things.
Maybe with some luck, someone who knows more of what they're seeing will pinpoint something that the rest of us have no clue about.
The intestines appear to be suspiciously enlarged.
Even if it is undigested food all backed up--take a careful look at the contents and you may find tiny worms or other things that don't belong.
As much as it is disgusting to some, I appreciate all the pictures.

Here is another link by a cham doc of various problems spotted on necropsies:
http://www.chameleonnews.com/02MayGreek.html

 

[Carlton]

Here is another source for necropsy images to help you identify which organs you're seeing.

If you're talking about the big dark blob that's laying on the table in the last two pictures, that's the intestinal tract. The intestinal tract is normally dark in chameleons so the color is not concerning, however the size of the gut looks much larger than it should be. Is it firm when you squeeze it? You can cut it open and see if there is something inside causing an obstruction.

That was my thought too ferret. The sheer size of the mass filling the body cavity. I know their GI tract is dark, but do you think the dark color seems to extend beyond the intestinal tissue itself or is it just the lighting? The whole area seems bloated.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

That's what I was thinking at first, but I can see some more normal colored tissues behind it once the intestines are moved out of the way. The liver is dark but it's hard to tell with color as everything will turn dark over time. I'm not sure how long this little guy was dead before being cut open. I did a necropsy on a jackson that died the night before and everything was black by the next afternoon when they brought it in so I couldn't really tell what was normal or not. But in this one the intestines are definitely far larger than normal at the least.

 

[Hakai]

Here is another source for necropsy images to help you identify which organs you're seeing. http://www.chameleonnews.com/02MayGreek.html

If you're talking about the big dark blob that's laying on the table in the last two pictures, that's the intestinal tract. The intestinal tract is normally dark in chameleons so the color is not concerning, however the size of the gut looks much larger than it should be. Is it firm when you squeeze it? You can cut it open and see if there is something inside causing an obstruction.

Sorry for your loss.

My dad didn't want me cutting the intestine open inside so I took it out and got the best night pictures I could. It seems all was in there was some beige liquid. We did not get all the way to the anus but the contents of the large area were not firm. We believe there to be some obstruction lower in the intestine.

 

[lisagr07]

Poor little guy... My condolences..I hope you get some idea what cause his death. We learn from each other here!

 

[Hakai]

That's what I was thinking at first, but I can see some more normal colored tissues behind it once the intestines are moved out of the way. It's hard to tell with color as everything will turn dark over time. I'm not sure how long this little guy was dead before being cut open. I did a necropsy on a jackson that died the night before and everything was black by the next afternoon when they brought it in so I couldn't really tell what was normal or not. But in this one the intestines are definitely far larger than normal at the least.

He was dead for apx. 12 hours before the necropsy was performed and I'm not sure if the fact the he was suspended upside down the entire time had anything to do with the results.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Here's what you're looking at (sorry I had to flip them - that's how I'm used to looking at them):

A: lung tissue
B: liver
C: either abnormal stomach or distended intestines covering stomach
D: distended intestines
E: testicle

Here is a comparison of a normal necropsy of a male veiled:

A: heart
B: lungs (with some evidence of pneumonia)
C: liver
D: intestines
E: stomach
F: testicle
G: fat pad deposits
H: kidney

 

[Hakai]

I absolutely commend your spirit and it truly is the best to rule out reasons for this unsuspected death. I have seen a similar blob produced by impaction. Can't wait to know what happened. Sorry you have to go through this but because of it many will learn.

thank you so much. I to am the squeamish type, but I figured this was something I had to do not only for my personal benefit, but for the benefit of others as well. Hopefully everyone will come away with some more knowledge of what to look for, and maybe the courage to perform there own necropsies in the future instead of just a burial.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

He was dead for apx. 12 hours before the necropsy was performed and I'm not sure if the fact the he was suspended upside down the entire time had anything to do with the results.

That's enough time for things to start breaking down and changing color. So the liver is most likely too dark from that.

My dad didn't want me cutting the intestine open inside so I took it out and got the best night pictures I could. It seems all was in there was some beige liquid. We did not get all the way to the anus but the contents of the large area were not firm. We believe there to be some obstruction lower in the intestine.

The beige liquid is digesting food. There could have been an obstruction further down causing things to back up and make the intestines distended like you're seeing. Maybe there was a congenital defect that did allow the GI tract to function properly, or maybe some intestinal parasites causing significant problems. I do think the intestines are not normal. It's hard to say specifically what the cause was, but it's good that you tried to get more information! It's not easy to do something like that to our own pets especially, but it's a great learning opportunity for you and the people you share it with. Thank you for posting your pictures and sorry again for your loss.

 

[Hakai]

Thank you so much for the normal necropsy pic. And the labels are super helpful. I could't seem to find a male veiled one before I began.

 

[Kaianuanu]

Hi-5 man, really nice job. Very neat job. Sure you weren't a surgeon in a past life? Sorry I came in so late, i got side-tracked. BTW, in that diagram, the part labelled C doesn't look quite right to my untrained eye, looks a bit bigger than I'd imagine it should. So my guess is that is digestion related. Good photography also.

 

[Hakai]

It's hard to say specifically what the cause was, but it's good that you tried to get more information! It's not easy to do something like that to our own pets especially, but it's a great learning opportunity for you and the people you share it with.

Sorry to ask this of you, I know I wasn't as thorough as I could have been, but based on what you saw, what is your best guess on what the cause was, is this a husbandry problem or something else, and how can I prevent this from happening in the future? Sorry if those are overwhelming questions, but those are the very reasons I started this and my previous thread.