EYE Trouble

[CamoTheCham12]

Need help, racking my brain-

About a week ago our chameleon started closing right eye on and off and rubbing it on branches like something was stuck, a few days after that started the right eye was closing on and off and now both have been closed for a few days. Sometimes she tries to open eyes but can only for a second or two so she’s moving around blindly.

As soon as I noticed 2nd eye closing I took her to the vet, they checked breathing, heartbeat and whatever else during exam. She was still eating when she could see and the next day both were closed so we took her back to the vet. Prescribed eye antibiotic ointment and have been having to syringe feed with critical care carnivore.

Started Humidity box twice a day since this started.

Still have strong grip and movement

Lost one gram from vet visit to next visit 14 to 13g

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, Female, about 4 months old, have had her for a month
• Handling - we were not handling her until now since it is a must
• Feeding - Crickets, calcium dusted every feeding without d3. And was doing reptivite once a week. Gut loading with fruit, lettuce, and cricket quencher. She was eating 10-15 a day but now she can’t see so syringe feeding.
• Supplements - repti calcium without d3 every feeding. Using reptivite once weekly
• Watering - Misting system was every 3 hours but vamped up to every hour for 30 seconds now. Dripper 24/7 and used to always see her drinking but now SHE CANT SEE so getting her water from humidity box and soak.
• Fecal Description - Was pooping normal when she was able to eat, brown poop white urates. Never tested for parasites

Cage Info:

• 2x2x4 - screen. Acrylic plastic on left and back side to hold humidity
• Lighting - Arcadia 7% about 6-8 inches from branch (another new bulb bought when this started). 65watt heat bulb, LED full spectrum for live plants. 8 am lights on, 6 pm leds off, 8 pm heat lamp off, 815 uv off.
• Temperature - 80-90 basking, moving down around 78, sleeping areas 69-72. Lowest temp around 69 (added a ceramic heat bulb during snow storm) measured using infrared thermometer.
• Humidity - Hygrometer, in 40’s during the day, goes up to about 60 during misting. Night time fogger runs on low for a few hours.
• Plants - Pothos throughout the cage, fern and draecena on bottom in bio substrate.
• Placement - Corner table, height that she basks at is above everything, about 7-8 ft high. No traffic no vents no fans
• Location - Kentucky

Current Problem - see beginning of post -

 

[Kodyf]

The humidity should be %80-%90 at night so either your hygrometer is broken or you need to increase spraying time after the lights shut out. You should only spray the cage in the morning after the lights come on for 4-8 minutes and spray the cage at night after the lights go off for 4-8 minutes unless your home has very very dry climate. Your over feeding the reptivite which is overdosing her on vitamin D3 this is poisoning, it can shut down her system and cause death, reptivite with d3 should be lightly dusted on the feeders every 14-15 days. Your feeding the calcium correctly make sure it’s lightly dusted. I’ll attach the gutloading diagram for you as well so you can make sure you’re following it correctly.
The more experienced members such as @MissSkittles or @Beman will reply shortly with more info for you but for now mark down changing the reptivite to twice a month.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Will do.
And movement/strength is all the same, just eyes struggling to open

Oh and that humidity is during the day, night time we try to keep around 80

Edit: and thank you for the quick response

 

[Kodyf]

Will do.
And movement/strength is all the same, just eyes struggling to open

Oh and that humidity is during the day, night time we try to keep around 80

Edit: and thank you for the quick response

Awesome, it seems to me you’re doing everything right other than the vitamin regiments. You could post us some pictures to analyze there is no judgement here we just want to help you and your baby. I’ll let others do a full examination and give their ideas on what you should do since it could be different things but my opinion is the eyes are having issues because of the excess amount of d3 in her system so now that you’ll have the right supplement plan that should help somewhat. Their could be other problems I’m not as experienced as others so we will still wait on a full review. Also welcome to the forum i’m also from Indiana so right above you Kentucky is a great state. Best of luck to you and your Cham.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Awesome, it seems to me you’re doing everything right other than the vitamin regiments. You could post us some pictures to analyze there is no judgement here we just want to help you and your baby. I’ll let others do a full examination and give their ideas on what you should do since it could be different things but my opinion is the eyes are having issues because of the excess amount of d3 in her system so now that you’ll have the right supplement plan that should help somewhat. Their could be other problems I’m not as experienced as others so we will still wait on a full review. Also welcome to the forum i’m also from Indiana so right above you Kentucky is a great state. Best of luck to you and your Cham.

Thank you! And yea I am mentally drained trying to help her and vet visits are just hitting my wallet . Posting pictures now

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Just took all of these, she is in the back on the screen because she can’t see to get anywhere- don’t want to stress her more by moving her over and over

 

[Kodyf]

Just took all of these, she is in the back on the screen because she can’t see to get anywhere- don’t want to stress her more by moving her over and over

As said before I live near you in Indiana and I took my Cham Iris to the vet near here and I wonder where you took your Cham if that isn’t too personal because the vet that saw my Cham didn’t even know how to tell the gender of my Cham which is worrying.
The people on this forum saved her a few months ago and my Cham was having eye problems as well I lowered her basking temperatures and listened to the experienced members reviews it really helped.
I’m worried about what the vet recommended you but I’m also weary of going against what was advised.
I’ve never heard of anyone using critical care carnivore on a veiled chameleon and i could be wrong to say and someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think this should have been advised. Understanding she is having trouble with her vision it sounds reasonable to advise a liquid syringe solution so I could be wrong but the ingredients sound off to me. I also missed something your maximum basking temperatures shouldn’t be higher than 82 degrees I recommend you to keep it between 78-80 and keep her ambient temperature at 68-72 during the day and 55-65 at night. I have a veiled female that’s roughly 6 months and she is striving with those temperatures and that is what most will recommend.

 

[Gloriawood]

Like @Kodyf said, she’s getting a bit too much of the reptivite. I am also a bit newer to this so take more experienced keepers advice over mine, but I would probably hold off on giving her any more reptivite for a bit. The vitamin a can build up in the system quite quickly. IF this is indeed the problem, you will have to be patient as eye issues from vitamins can take a while to resolve. It basically just has to work itself out of her system.

You might consider changing up your misting schedule. It’s recommended to do sessions at least 2 minutes long as this triggers a drinking response in chams. A lot of times twice a day is enough for some people. This is where it depends on your environment. I do a three minute session every six hours and this works well for my guy here in Missouri. Then I add a dripper in mid afternoon for 15-20 minutes.

 

[Kodyf]

The only reason I’m worried about the critical care carnivore is because veiled chameleons are insectivores. I’m not sure if that’s even digestible. I’d call your vet and make sure that should have been given to a veiled Cham. I could be wrong and like I said if so someone can correct me. I think theirs a different regiment or option that could be better to be recommended for nurturing the chameleon and I’d ask your vet if they’re absolutely sure that’s what is needed for her care while she has trouble eating.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I do see a few things so give me a bit of time and I’ll go thru all of your husbandry. I may repeat some of what has already been said, so pardon.

 

[Kodyf]

I’ve read multiple prior threads relating to the carnivore critical care subject. I’m going to advise against it and recommend you to use a home-made bug juice recipe instead of the critical care carnivore. The critical care carnivore is used widely even for chameleons but it truly doesn’t have the correct diet ratio for a chameleon. It could work for a couple days but it’s likely since your chameleon has had an excess of d3 and vitamins this eye issue might take some time to heal back to normal so long term syringe feeding the critical care shouldn’t have been advised and could make the recovery process longer since her diet isn’t correct. Veterinary services do prescribe the critical care carnivore but in my opinion I think they do it by policy and since it’s simple and easy, that doesn’t mean it’s the best option. Chameleons are delicate and even more delicate during recovery, so you want to offer the best possible care.

It’s more of a hassle for you but will be much healthier in nourishing her which she needs most during this time of stress to give her the most nutrients.

People in prior threads used live chameleon safe insects then crushed or blended the insects(you could use crickets and mealworms, or Dubai roaches and mealworms), right after add only just enough egg yolk to liquefy the crushed/blended insects, draw it into the syringe and administer just same as you used the carnivore critical care.

We want to make sure your chameleon has the closest to a natural diet we can get during this time. Making the home-made bug juice I recommended would be more beneficial and has the correct diet ratio.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

As said before I live near you in Indiana and I took my Cham Iris to the vet near here and I wonder where you took your Cham if that isn’t too personal because the vet that saw my Cham didn’t even know how to tell the gender of my Cham which is worrying.
The people on this forum saved her a few months ago and my Cham was having eye problems as well I lowered her basking temperatures and listened to the experienced members reviews it really helped.
I’m worried about what the vet recommended you but I’m also weary of going against what was advised.
I’ve never heard of anyone using critical care carnivore on a veiled chameleon and i could be wrong to say and someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think this should have been advised. Understanding she is having trouble with her vision it sounds reasonable to advise a liquid syringe solution so I could be wrong but the ingredients sound off to me. I also missed something your maximum basking temperatures shouldn’t be higher than 82 degrees I recommend you to keep it between 78-80 and keep her ambient temperature at 68-72 during the day and 55-65 at night. I have a veiled female that’s roughly 6 months and she is striving with those temperatures and that is what most will recommend.

Thanks. See I had her temps at that before and they told me to raise it, against my judgement since I was keeping it at 82 basking and night time 68-70 and they said to raise it so I am going to go back to that right now

 

[CamoTheCham12]

Like @Kodyf said, she’s getting a bit too much of the reptivite. I am also a bit newer to this so take more experienced keepers advice over mine, but I would probably hold off on giving her any more reptivite for a bit. The vitamin a can build up in the system quite quickly. IF this is indeed the problem, you will have to be patient as eye issues from vitamins can take a while to resolve. It basically just has to work itself out of her system.

You might consider changing up your misting schedule. It’s recommended to do sessions at least 2 minutes long as this triggers a drinking response in chams. A lot of times twice a day is enough for some people. This is where it depends on your environment. I do a three minute session every six hours and this works well for my guy here in Missouri. Then I add a dripper in mid afternoon for 15-20 minutes.

Thank you I will switch back to my previous schedule with the misting .

 

[MissSkittles]

Breaking this into two parts - I tend to talk a lot and it’s easier this way in case I get called away.

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, Female, about 4 months old, have had her for a month
• Handling - we were not handling her until now since it is a must
• Feeding - Crickets, calcium dusted every feeding without d3. Ok, you’ll need to add more variety though. Make sure to dust lightly. You don’t want your bugs to look like powdered donuts. And was doing reptivite once a week. I do know it’s already been said that this is too often. You want to use this only once every other week (works out to about twice per month) Some of the vitamins in it are fat soluble, like the A and D3 and can easily build up in the body and cause problems and eventually, toxicity. Whatever may be going on, this may be contributing. Gut loading with fruit, lettuce, and cricket quencher. This definitely needs to be improved. Your crickets are basically just carrying sugar water to your chameleon and no real nutrition. I keep my feeders well fed with a variety of fresh produce and a bit of Repashy Bug Burger. Attaching some graphics to help guide you. She was eating 10-15 a day but now she can’t see so syringe feeding. Are you still trying to offer her insect feeders? The carnivore care is ok, but shouldn’t really be used for longer than a week or so. There is Repta-Boost, which you may need to switch her to. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000634CL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Of course, you could always mash up bugs for her into a slurry, which is possibly the grossest thing I’ve ever done, but anything for my animals. At those unfortunate times when I needed to force feed my chameleons, I would instead of just going straight to the syringe, I would first try shoving a cricket in the mouth. If that was accepted, I continued with more crickets.
• Supplements - repti calcium without d3 every feeding. Using reptivite once weekly Already went over this
• Watering - Misting system was every 3 hours but vamped up to every hour for 30 seconds now. Dripper 24/7 and used to always see her drinking but now SHE CANT SEE so getting her water from humidity box and soak. I don’t like this at all. All of this imo is risking giving her a respiratory infection, which is the last thing she needs. You want to continue misting for two minutes, 2-3 times a day - before lights on and off and mid day if needed. Soaking her is only stressing her out. Chameleons do not absorb water thru their vent. I don’t know why vets still believe this. I don’t know what a humidity box is, but I don’t like it during the day. Heat plus high humidity is a recipe for respiratory infection. However, at night if you can achieve a significant drop in temp to at least 68-70, you can use a fogger and boost humidity all the way. This simulates natural hydration wild chameleons get thru fog.
  
• Fecal Description - Was pooping normal when she was able to eat, brown poop white urates. Never tested for parasites A fecal check is most definitely something that needs to be done to rule that out as a cause for her illness.
• I do need to say that ever since keeping chameleons, I’ve learned that veterinarians are human and their education just isn’t able to cover the finer points of husbandry for every single animal. Some vets have lots of experience and have on their own learned more about chameleons. These are few and far between though. Most will try, but apply the standard lizard care to them, which doesn’t work well. I was told by a vet that I needed to enclose my sick chameleon in a bin of warm water and then place it on a heating pad. This is just so very wrong to do and horrible advice for any circumstance. Aside from that horror, the vet is actually pretty good.
  More to come. (I warned you I talk a lot).
  
  

 

[CamoTheCham12]

I’ve read multiple prior threads relating to the carnivore critical care subject. I’m going to advise against it and recommend you to use a home-made bug juice recipe instead of the critical care carnivore. The critical care carnivore is used widely even for chameleons but it truly doesn’t have the correct diet ratio for a chameleon. It could work for a couple days but it’s likely since your chameleon has had an excess of d3 and vitamins this eye issue might take some time to heal back to normal so long term syringe feeding the critical care shouldn’t have been advised and could make the recovery process longer since her diet isn’t correct. Veterinary services do prescribe the critical care carnivore but in my opinion I think they do it by policy and since it’s simple and easy, that doesn’t mean it’s the best option. Chameleons are delicate and even more delicate during recovery, so you want to offer the best possible care.

It’s more of a hassle for you but will be much healthier in nourishing her which she needs most during this time of stress to give her the most nutrients.

People in prior threads used live chameleon safe insects then crushed or blended the insects(you could use crickets and mealworms, or Dubai roaches and mealworms), right after add only just enough egg yolk to liquefy the crushed/blended insects, draw it into the syringe and administer just same as you used the carnivore critical care.

We want to make sure your chameleon has the closest to a natural diet we can get during this time. Making the home-made bug juice I recommended would be more beneficial and has the correct diet ratio.

Ok thanks I will be crushing up some crickets,meal worms, and mix with egg yolk for her breakfast. Should it be a thick consistency?

 

[Kodyf]

Thanks. See I had her temps at that before and they told me to raise it, against my judgement since I was keeping it at 82 basking and night time 68-70 and they said to raise it so I am going to go back to that right now

No problem! Veterinary services offer incorrect information all the time trust me they did it to me right after taking $110 out of my wallet a couple months ago. I recommend her temps at night should be 55-65 which also really helps retain the humidity, we as keepers know better sometimes by the health of our chameleons.

 

[CamoTheCham12]

I’ve read multiple prior threads relating to the carnivore critical care subject. I’m going to advise against it and recommend you to use a home-made bug juice recipe instead of the critical care carnivore. The critical care carnivore is used widely even for chameleons but it truly doesn’t have the correct diet ratio for a chameleon. It could work for a couple days but it’s likely since your chameleon has had an excess of d3 and vitamins this eye issue might take some time to heal back to normal so long term syringe feeding the critical care shouldn’t have been advised and could make the recovery process longer since her diet isn’t correct. Veterinary services do prescribe the critical care carnivore but in my opinion I think they do it by policy and since it’s simple and easy, that doesn’t mean it’s the best option. Chameleons are delicate and even more delicate during recovery, so you want to offer the best possible care.

It’s more of a hassle for you but will be much healthier in nourishing her which she needs most during this time of stress to give her the most nutrients.

People in prior threads used live chameleon safe insects then crushed or blended the insects(you could use crickets and mealworms, or Dubai roaches and mealworms), right after add only just enough egg yolk to liquefy the crushed/blended insects, draw it into the syringe and administer just same as you used the carnivore critical care.

We want to make sure your chameleon has the closest to a natural diet we can get during this time. Making the home-made bug juice I recommended would be more beneficial and has the correct diet ratio.

Also, how do I get her to open her mouth syringe feeding? I have been putting the syringe drops right on mouth and it takes a while for her to start opening mouth to get a taste. Earlier took me about 30 minutes to get her to start tasting so I could do a few lines at a tkme

 

[Kodyf]

Ok thanks I will be crushing up some crickets,meal worms, and mix with egg yolk for her breakfast. Should it be a thick consistency?

Just enough liquid from the yolk to draw into the syringe. The consistency shouldn’t be watery but not too thick either.

 

[Kodyf]

Also, how do I get her to open her mouth syringe feeding? I have been putting the syringe drops right on mouth and it takes a while for her to start opening mouth to get a taste. Earlier took me about 30 minutes to get her to start tasting so I could do a few lines at a tkme

This is the hard part because she is so young. You don’t want to force the syringe so this can be quite difficult. If you catch her gaping or drinking you can always just try to put a cricket into the mouth or the syringe with bug juice, maybe catch her drinking.

 

[Kodyf]

Older chameleons can endure force feeding, but as discussed in prior threads forcefeeding of the chameleon at this age is not worth the risk of injury.
So catching her at just the right time gaping or drinking is one of the few options here.
I’m thinking once she gets one taste of that bug juice she’ll be going for more.