Eyes closed

[mrsruvi]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon -Veiled, Male in my care sense december
• Handling - once a week until the last few days then daily for medication and showers.
• Feeding - crickets and fruit (apples and strawberries are faves) crickets eat green veg and flukers
• Supplements - Zoomed calcium without d on crickets daily, multivitamin with d 2x a month
• Watering - Zoomed reptirain 45 sec every 3 hours.
• Fecal Description - a bit hard the last day or so, lots of strawberry seeds in it. urate is a bit dark: yellow.
• History - has a history of respiratory infections (you guys helped with husbandry to change cage layout and watering cycle). Also had a burn on his casque which has healed pretty well.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen 18x18x36
• Lighting - basking light 75w i think? im not sure off the top of my head but the box is downstairs. Have long tube lighting for the reptisun 10 uvb. lights on when we get up in the morning (8a ish) and off when we go to bed, (9p)
• Temperature -78 in middle, 90-95 in the basking spot. using digital thermometer
• Humidity - 50-60 little analog gauge
• Plants - plastic vines along the side and a living plant in the middle, schefflera arbicola
• Placement - in a corner of our game room. well lit. all parts of my house are high traffic (i have four kids) hes not below a vent or anything.
• Location - Indiana

Ok! Kappa Chameleon has had his eyes closed for 4 days now. Coloring is good, eating was normal on day one of the eye closing (he'd open them from time to time to eat), day two of eye closing it was constant i got alarmed and called the vet she said to start antibiotics by injection since he wont open his eyes to eat. Hes been on daily injections for three days now (today was the third dose) eyes still not opening and he hasnt eaten the crickets in his cage for the last three days. I have been showering him for 10 min for the last two days and he will open his eyes after a shower. four days ago he did eat quite a lot of strawberries and i noticed a LOT of seeds in his poop.

Coloring is good, hes shedding today, grip is good, im worried hes not drinking enough as his urate is yellow now.

Im going to replace his UVB bulb tomorrow, maybe its gone bad? i got it in March i think so 3 mo? worth a try i guess. Maybe give the antibiotics more time?

 

[AnamCara]

Did the vet physically examine the chameleon in person? or just do a phone consultation? Posting a photo of the chameleon and your setup will help a keeper give you input.

 

[Thehippie]

first of all, your male needs a 2x2x4 screen enclosure minimum
you need to feed variety like superworms hornworms silkworms roaches and others
you need to spray 3 times a day at least 2 mins each time
stop feeding fruits and veggies regularly, chameleons are insectivores and need a stable variety of food in order to survive, not plants
what antibiotics are you using and please post pics of his set up and him
the urates are yellow because you aren't giving him enough time to drink

 

[janjan20]

I highly recommend a fecal check for parasites if you haven’t already. Eyes closed is a very bad sign, hydration is critical when on antibiotics. Maybe consider supplementing with carnivore care if he is not eating.

 

[mrsruvi]

We are at the vet now. She called in the antibiotics three days ago, but no improvement so i got him in. His urate was white this morning but his eyes are still closed. His watering schedule has been working well for him for 4 months so I’ll keep it as is for now but thanks for the feedback on that. I’ll keep you informed

 

[JacksJill]

What brand of multi vitamin are you using? Make sure it has a source of Vitamin A from retinol not just betacarotene.

 

[mrsruvi]

Vet couldn’t see anything wrong with him other than the eyes. Nothing weird in feces, no swelling or bloating. He opened his eyes for her and she looked at them: both clear no discharge. She said she really had no idea and suggested it could be related to temperature or the fact that his reptirain broke a few days ago so he had a day of hand misting instead of his normal schedule. She’s giving eye drops instead of the injected antibiotic today.

I asked about a vitamin supplement since he’s not eating right now so she is sending me with two until he’s back on his game. She said his weight gain is great so she’s not too worried

I’m not sure what to do or say... he was looking super super healthy until four days ago when this started. I guess I’ll try these things? But I don’t know what about the temperature might need adjusted? Nothing changed recently...

 

[Graves923]

If temps are too cool, their metabolism will slow down which I would assume might cause sleeping during the day. You said you are reading 90-95*F which is a wide range to measure in the basking spot so I'd suggest getting a reading from a different thermometer to confirm those temp reading.

Vit-A deficiency could also be a cause. As mentioned above, check your supplement for PREformed Vit-A. Most multivitamins have PROformed (aka Beta-carotene). Below is an excerpt from an article found here: http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2012/03/chameleon-physiology-supplements.html

"Vitamin A: Vitamin A comes in two common forms, preformed vit A, from animal sources (and is absorbed in the form of retinol) and beta-carotenoids, which are found in plant sources. The latter is most often found in orange or dark green fruits and vegetables in the form of beta-carotenes (which is easily converted into retinol), which are easily converted into vitamin A. Although it is unknown whether chameleons can convert beta-carotene into vit A, providing it is easy enough, as the same vegetables that provide other good nutrition (dark, leafy vegetables) can provide this as well. And although it isn’t sure it will help, it certainly can’t hurt. Preformed vitamin A, on the other hand, comes from animal products like eggs, liver, or dairy, and from some fortified cereals. Adding some boiled egg or fortified cereal to gut loads occasionally will add this vitamin into the diet. There are also some commercial products that supplement vitamin A to reptiles, their use will depend on the brand and the ingredients. "

 

[Big E]

Your responses should be toned down slightly we are only trying to help.

 

[mrsruvi]

Your responses should be toned down slightly we are only trying to help.

I’m not sure what you mean? I’m not angry with anyone I’m just worried and confused. Even the vet isn’t very helpful... im sorry if it’s coming off weirdly

 

[mrsruvi]

If temps are too cool, their metabolism will slow down which I would assume might cause sleeping during the day. You said you are reading 90-95*F which is a wide range to measure in the basking spot so I'd suggest getting a reading from a different thermometer to confirm those temp reading.

Vit-A deficiency could also be a cause. As mentioned above, check your supplement for PREformed Vit-A. Most multivitamins have PROformed (aka Beta-carotene). Below is an excerpt from an article found here: http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2012/03/chameleon-physiology-supplements.html

"Vitamin A: Vitamin A comes in two common forms, preformed vit A, from animal sources (and is absorbed in the form of retinol) and beta-carotenoids, which are found in plant sources. The latter is most often found in orange or dark green fruits and vegetables in the form of beta-carotenes (which is easily converted into retinol), which are easily converted into vitamin A. Although it is unknown whether chameleons can convert beta-carotene into vit A, providing it is easy enough, as the same vegetables that provide other good nutrition (dark, leafy vegetables) can provide this as well. And although it isn’t sure it will help, it certainly can’t hurt. Preformed vitamin A, on the other hand, comes from animal products like eggs, liver, or dairy, and from some fortified cereals. Adding some boiled egg or fortified cereal to gut loads occasionally will add this vitamin into the diet. There are also some commercial products that supplement vitamin A to reptiles, their use will depend on the brand and the ingredients. "

It says “vitamin a palmitate”? That’s also what is in the eye drops I’ve been doing this week. I’ll google

 

[janjan20]

I’m not sure what you mean? I’m not angry with anyone I’m just worried and confused. Even the vet isn’t very helpful... im sorry if it’s coming off weirdly

I don’t think you sounded angry at all lol...how is your little guy doing?

 

[mrsruvi]

Not great. He’s been on antibiotic eye drops since Thursday. His eyes have popped out a bit more but I’m still syringe feeding him. I replaced his light bulb today and his color has improved and he’s opening them to hiss at me but he’s still mostly keeping them closed.

On the upside, he’s taking the time to hiss at me now? He wasn’t before and his normal temperament is pretty pissy. So to be docile is bad.

 

[mrsruvi]

A visual. Climbing around squinting

 

[Beman]

Are you using a T5 or T8 UVB fixture? If it is a single bulb T5 fixture you should be using a 5.0 bulb. Not a 10.0. A 10.0 will produce a much higher UVI level then is good for them.
I would curb back on the strawberries and apples. Make his diet more insect less fruit.

What type of multivitamin are you using? I would get a digital hydrometer the anolog ones are not always accurate.

 

[mrsruvi]

Are you using a T5 or T8 UVB fixture? If it is a single bulb T5 fixture you should be using a 5.0 bulb. Not a 10.0. A 10.0 will produce a much higher UVI level then is good for them.
I would curb back on the strawberries and apples. Make his diet more insect less fruit.

What type of multivitamin are you using? I would get a digital hydrometer the anolog ones are not always accurate.

Ok can I follow up on this? I had previously posted photos of my set up and was specifically advised TO get the 10.0 in the long tube format light. He’s been using that since March with no issues. Is it possible the bulb hasn’t been gradually blinding him since March and he only just now shows symptoms?

I’m not worried about his humidity levels at all. His urate has been white except for yellowish one four days ago. But I’m very worried about the lights. Like I said above, before he closed his eyes he looked as healthy as I’ve ever seen him, lots of good color changing etc, eating well... if it is a husbandry issue I want to fix it, it’s just nothing has changed

 

[Beman]

Ok can I follow up on this? I had previously posted photos of my set up and was specifically advised TO get the 10.0 in the long tube format light. He’s been using that since March with no issues. Is it possible the bulb hasn’t been gradually blinding him since March and he only just now shows symptoms?

I’m not worried about his humidity levels at all. His urate has been white except for yellowish one four days ago. But I’m very worried about the lights. Like I said above, before he closed his eyes he looked as healthy as I’ve ever seen him, lots of good color changing etc, eating well... if it is a husbandry issue I want to fix it, it’s just nothing has changed

So the only way to know exact UVI output is with a solarmeter 6.5... It is not about being blinded so much as being over exposed to a UVI level that is much too high. With a single fixture you want a 5.0 bulb. THe only time with chams that we are going to up it to a 10.0 is with a quad fixture.

So yes you will want to get the 5.0 bulb. The basking spot should be approximately 7-8 inches below the fixture and the fixture should lay directly on the cage.

While I do not know if this is the exact issue it could be.

If he has had prior infections this could also be tied into what is going on with his eyes.

Also 45 seconds really is not long enough for them to clean their eyes. This could also contribute.

 

[mrsruvi]

So the only way to know exact UVI output is with a solarmeter 6.5... It is not about being blinded so much as being over exposed to a UVI level that is much too high. With a single fixture you want a 5.0 bulb. THe only time with chams that we are going to up it to a 10.0 is with a quad fixture.

So yes you will want to get the 5.0 bulb. The basking spot should be approximately 7-8 inches below the fixture and the fixture should lay directly on the cage.

While I do not know if this is the exact issue it could be.

If he has had prior infections this could also be tied into what is going on with his eyes.

Also 45 seconds really is not long enough for them to clean their eyes. This could also contribute.

Ok so what you are saying makes sense, I changed his plant about a week ago to a shorter plant that didn’t block the light as much. So he may have had less exposure to that same bulb before then. I’ll try the other bulb.

The spray time: my fixture only goes up to 60 seconds and water is pooling at the bottom of the cage when it’s on that level and given the respiratory infections I’m hesitant to change anything to do with his water that involves increasing it. But I might be thinking about it wrong help me understand

 

[Beman]

Ok so what you are saying makes sense, I changed his plant about a week ago to a shorter plant that didn’t block the light as much. So he may have had less exposure to that same bulb before then. I’ll try the other bulb.

The spray time: my fixture only goes up to 60 seconds and water is pooling at the bottom of the cage when it’s on that level and given the respiratory infections I’m hesitant to change anything to do with his water that involves increasing it. But I might be thinking about it wrong help me understand

Do you not have a drainage pan for the bottom?

Ok so it takes them a bit to be like oh yeah there is the mist and oh yeah I gotta clean my eyes lol. I compare this to my daughter in the tub when she was little. Like all she wanted to do was hang out and play with her toys. It would take her a good 20 minutes before any washing would happen without a tantrum. So chams are the same as far as it isnt an instant oh water I need to clean type of thing. I would bump it to 60 seconds. Can you do every 4 hours?

As far as the lighting... Absolutely! if you removed a plant to a shorter one this would leave him more exposed to the UVI rays. They do not penetrate the leaves so he would have been getting lower levels but now is getting much higher ones.

 

[mrsruvi]

I don’t have a drainage tray! I will research this! Thank you! Ok running out for a new light bulb. I turned it off for now. (A bit early)