Facebook Groups Make Me ANGRY!!!

[nightanole]

It's an old school method and it'd be really cold run off, but it's technically doable. A up with a pinhole on the bottom containing room temp water is more effective, I think.

I did a combo, i cubes in the water bottle with the pin hole in it. Runs for a few hours after you leave for work. I dont use it for humidity though LOL

 

[Gbeats]

I did a combo, i cubes in the water bottle with the pin hole in it. Runs for a few hours after you leave for work. I dont use it for humidity though LOL

This is genius! Im definitely trying that. I am bioactive and a constant dripper is just too much water in my system until I get a more advanced drainage operation going. Lucky me, my Charla drinks off the plants in the morning after I mist. But I wanted a suppperrr slow drip option and low volume of water total..this is Perfecto

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

I did a combo, i cubes in the water bottle with the pin hole in it. Runs for a few hours after you leave for work. I dont use it for humidity though LOL

I've never understood how people say that a dripper or a standing water bowl, for instance in my NC Geckos enclosures, help with humidity. They litteraly do nothing for the fact lol. And in the case of the dripper it has always been a hot mess for me.

 

[Gbeats]

I've never understood how people say that a dripper or a standing water bowl, for instance in my NC Geckos enclosures, help with humidity. They litteraly do nothing for the fact lol. And in the case of the dripper it has always been a hot mess for me.

Drippers suck! I don't really think we need to flood these enclosures with liters of water daily

 

[jamest0o0]

Drippers suck! I don't really think we need to flood these enclosures with liters of water daily

While I agree, drippers aren't necessary in a lot of cases, it's not really good to make generalizations because it depends on individual and species. For example, you may have a panther or veiled that live fine off 2 minutes of water a day because they readily drink, but the next might take 10 minutes of non stop water to drink. When you get to some montanes, my Parsons won't even think about drinking until about 20ish minutes in of spraying. He doesn't seem interested in drippers either. So then you can explore options like fogging, very long showers, etc. I personally just mist about an hour a day if it's not raining(hes outside).

 

[Gbeats]

While I agree, drippers aren't necessary in a lot of cases, it's not really good to make generalizations because it depends on individual and species. For example, you may have a panther or veiled that live fine off 2 minutes of water a day because they readily drink, but the next might take 10 minutes of non stop water to drink. When you get to some montanes, my Parsons won't even think about drinking until about 20ish minutes in of spraying. He doesn't seem interested in drippers either. So then you can explore options like fogging, very long showers, etc. I personally just mist about an hour a day if it's not raining(hes outside).

Very true! If I ever get another chameleon ..it will be a Parsons for sure! I'm in love

 

[PetNcs]

I am going to re-open this thread, but with one ask from the community. Keep the discussion on track and appropriate. Since the title itself is already one that can lead to disputes, this could be challenging.

Thank you @TaylorLMatthews for being the one to bring the discussion where it needed to be! (Full disclosure, I am FB "friends" with Taylor, but that isn't why I am saying this.) That is what most of my FB experience has been like when cruising through the various chameleon related posts. I don't generally participate too much with the discussions because there is a definite personality to each of the groups. Some will offer this site as a resource for people to use and some never will. The fact is that many of the members there are former active members here. Petr (also full disclosure... I am also FB "friends" with) has a tremendous amount of knowledge and I value that, but that doesn't mean this is the only source I would depend on. It has helped me to do what I have always encouraged members to do and that is to look beyond the first correct answer and always keep learning.

Since this discussion also brings up a hot topic about misting, @PetNcs has probably been the most influential one in recent times to question what we mostly consider to be the "best" way to care for captive chameleons. The Naturalistic Approach is something I have done for years in keeping all types of animals, but when I was thinking about hydrating chameleons I did not consider the way it is in nature. Now I will tell you that I have been using a fogger at night with my panther, but I still mist during the day. It works for me and my situation. I think that long misting sessions can work for many animals to encourage drinking, but is that what they truly need? Are we missing something else that could be even better for them? Keep an open mind.

As for the use of the form to ask about basic husbandry (don't worry, I am not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I should be able to use multi syllabic words...) I find it to be a great source of information and a way to streamline the issues. It isn't the only way, but it works well. Remember though, not everyone uses the site or FB sites the same way and this could be intimidating to some and scare them away from help because they have been attacked by people here or elsewhere. That is the unfortunate side of the internet.

Finally, I am going to open the thread for further replies and I hope the discussion is a good one! (I'm not going to lie, I kinda like seeing Taylor and Petr on here once in a while. I think they both have a lot to offer the community and would add to the discussion!)

-Michael

Michael, a great, friendly and ballanced answer! it is a joy to discuss this way! Count always on my supportt!

 

[PetNcs]

While I agree, drippers aren't necessary in a lot of cases, it's not really good to make generalizations because it depends on individual and species. For example, you may have a panther or veiled that live fine off 2 minutes of water a day because they readily drink, but the next might take 10 minutes of non stop water to drink. When you get to some montanes, my Parsons won't even think about drinking until about 20ish minutes in of spraying. He doesn't seem interested in drippers either. So then you can explore options like fogging, very long showers, etc. I personally just mist about an hour a day if it's not raining(hes outside).

The name of the game is: try to replicate rhe nature! Hydration is an issue and we do not have still the universal answer. However it became very evident that we missed fir decades the main issue: the chameleons sut at night in high humidities and fog... and in all
Chameleon species, I and my colleagues did the experiments so dar, night foggers seem to work fantastic: the lower the temp, the better (within natural ranges). The chameleons start adter dew days exhibit the same drinking behavior as I know it from decades imy field research: namely they are not drinking fluid water. J have an experiment running at home fir already 18 konths: no drop of liquid water, just nighttime fogger. My animals are absolutely greatky hydrated and exhibit all behavioral oatterns incl egglaying.

 

[PetNcs]

He thought you were camo lol, would be kind of funny if that was actually directed at you.

I am sorry for my misidentifying yiu witb the OP, pkease accept
My apologies. It was nit addressed to yiu. Mea culpa

 

[jamest0o0]

@PetNcs I'm glad to see you see back and want to say I greatly appreciate your contributions. I feel bad for any rift created between myself or any others here and you. I hope we can go forward getting along and putting the drama behind. I don't have Facebook anymore, but used to and would read any of your posts that I could. I learned a ton! I don't doubt anything you've done, I guess I'm used to the newbies coming here that want to slack on a lot of things, so I try to keep it simple. I've been interested in fogging my Parsons for the winter(summer he is outside and our night humidity is very high). Do you mind sharing your cleaning routine for your foggers? I've been hesitant from seeing them grow mold and slime bacteria.

 

[salty dog]

This isn't facebook related, husbandry reIated response to hydrating. I watch my chams when I turn on the lights, early morning, 5:30 the temp is low & the humidity is high, I see them often opening their mouth slightly then closing, they do this repeatedly, I think they are pulling in the moisture

 

[JoXie411]

Tell me where you got the ANSOLUTE NONSENCE citting me to “limittinb access tk water!” Itnis a lie, I never state anything like that! It is unfair and wrong to put the words J have never said to my mouth! I PROTEST and ask yiu take your statement baxk because it is FALSE.
I never limit the access to water tk chameleons and never advice like that, on contrary I preach PROPER HYDRATION based on extensive field research and 33+ years keeping and breeding experience!!!

The name of the game is: try to replicate rhe nature! Hydration is an issue and we do not have still the universal answer. However it became very evident that we missed fir decades the main issue: the chameleons sut at night in high humidities and fog... and in all
Chameleon species, I and my colleagues did the experiments so dar, night foggers seem to work fantastic: the lower the temp, the better (within natural ranges). The chameleons start adter dew days exhibit the same drinking behavior as I know it from decades imy field research: namely they are not drinking fluid water. J have an experiment running at home fir already 18 konths: no drop of liquid water, just nighttime fogger. My animals are absolutely greatky hydrated and exhibit all behavioral oatterns incl egglaying.

I thought you said you don’t limit your water access?

 

[micahhh]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Red, got a year ago
• Handling - We play the bitey bitey game with him till he gets tired
• Feeding - he really likes hot dogs, and will eat my sisters left over cheerios
• Supplements - we crush up a multi vitamin and put it in his drinking tube we have left over from the hamster
• Watering - see above
• Fecal Description - smells bad as is easy to pick up with paper towel
• History - the person i got it from said it was from a good breeder

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - glass from the hamster
• Lighting - We keep him next to the window the the window open, through screen
• Temperature - we only have the ac on in the summer
• Humidity - we put ice cubes on top of the tank once a day
• Plants - we dont have a green thumb, used fake plants from funerals
• Placement - by the window
• Location - you will try to find me by matching my handle on the internet

Current Problem - looks grey colored some times, but only some body parts, never the same part twice.

View attachment 233914

you’re hilarious, lmfaoooooo.

 

[Decadancin]

I thought you said you don’t limit your water access?

He is simply offering the water access the way it would be found in their natural state. It isn't in the form of misting or droplets, but through fog. Although I don't use this method exclusively, to say it is limiting access to water could be looked at the same way pet stores often react when we tell them they shouldn't have a water bowl. It isn't limiting access if we take out the bowl, just offering the moisture in a way the animal can use it.

 

[jamest0o0]

He is simply offering the water access the way it would be found in their natural state. It isn't in the form of misting or droplets, but through fog. Although I don't use this method exclusively, to say it is limiting access to water could be looked at the same way pet stores often react when we tell them they shouldn't have a water bowl. It isn't limiting access if we take out the bowl, just offering the moisture in a way the animal can use it.

Was thinking the same, but I can see where the confusion could be in the post. @JacksJill was specifically talking about drinking water when she posted that.

 

[JoXie411]

He is simply offering the water access the way it would be found in their natural state. It isn't in the form of misting or droplets, but through fog. Although I don't use this method exclusively, to say it is limiting access to water could be looked at the same way pet stores often react when we tell them they shouldn't have a water bowl. It isn't limiting access if we take out the bowl, just offering the moisture in a way the animal can use it.

I agree with the points but in my opinion it does rain in the wild. why are we not taking that into account? Yes it may not rain everyday but it does rain, wouldn’t the mist come into play? I don’t want what I’m asking to be taken out of context, I’m just simply saying the mist we provide for the chameleons does it not act like a rain shower? If the point for the game is mimic the environment why take away misting that acts like rainstorms? Again this is just my opinion

 

[PetNcs]

@PetNcs I'm glad to see you see back and want to say I greatly appreciate your contributions. I feel bad for any rift created between myself or any others here and you. I hope we can go forward getting along and putting the drama behind. I don't have Facebook anymore, but used to and would read any of your posts that I could. I learned a ton! I don't doubt anything you've done, I guess I'm used to the newbies coming here that want to slack on a lot of things, so I try to keep it simple. I've been interested in fogging my Parsons for the winter(summer he is outside and our night humidity is very high). Do you mind sharing your cleaning routine for your foggers? I've been hesitant from seeing them grow mold and slime bacteria.

I will be very candor...
As the foggers are sk cheap, I even di nit clen them from stain. Once they stop working, I oick another one
I use demineralized water but as the water quality in the city I live is superb, I drink it and I use it fir my chams too
As per risks of bacteria: the lrocess if fogging is literally making the water shake and “explode” to build the tiny fog particles, so, K have done many exoeriments but found no bacteria, they are killed by the process. And as long as the direction if flow is always frim the sterile fihher towards the cage, I do even not care fir cleaning the pipes. I have some transparent ones and they are clean.
No worries.
Anyway, It can not harm to clean them eg weekly or biweekly just to be safe...

 

[PetNcs]

I thought you said you don’t limit your water access?

Yes true I have misters and drippers for several months. As they are absolutely ignored and the chamelekns keep their weight, i switch off the mister and saw no difference, dripper is as a backup solution always there even though they ignore it. I know 100%, as I use cameras For evidence. I took some animals to normal regime with dry nights, not later than within a week, they started to drink again liquid water as rhey lost weight.

 

[PetNcs]

I agree with the points but in my opinion it does rain in the wild. why are we not taking that into account? Yes it may not rain everyday but it does rain, wouldn’t the mist come into play? I don’t want what I’m asking to be taken out of context, I’m just simply saying the mist we provide for the chameleons does it not act like a rain shower? If the point for the game is mimic the environment why take away misting that acts like rainstorms? Again this is just my opinion

Sure it rains in the wild! And do yiu kniw what the chameleons do in rain at daytime? If yiur guess is: they gi and drink, yih are mistaken. They hide in the deep of the bush and start ti sleep hiding the best possible way from rain. That is first. (As a rule, I have seen it many times)
Second: mister is not simullating rain and it does not simulate it in many many aspects.
1. If there is rain, the temperature drips deeoly diwn
2. If there is rain, the sun is hidden behind clouds
3. If there is rain, it has a temperature in the low 70s or even below
4. If there is rain it becomes dark
None of these are as a rule simulated in the captivity.
Mister is pressurized water
It does not exist in the wild
Rain Is not pressurized water

Well, I am not vigorously against misters, theybserved the hobby and the lhrpose, but for me they are dinosaurs. We know better nowadays.

 

[Decadancin]

Sure it rains in the wild! And do yiu kniw what the chameleons do in rain at daytime? If yiur guess is: they gi and drink, yih are mistaken. They hide in the deep of the bush and start ti sleep hiding the best possible way from rain. That is first. (As a rule, I have seen it many times)
Second: mister is not simullating rain and it does not simulate it in many many aspects.
1. If there is rain, the temperature drips deeoly diwn
2. If there is rain, the sun is hidden behind clouds
3. If there is rain, it has a temperature in the low 70s or even below
4. If there is rain it becomes dark
None of these are as a rule simulated in the captivity.
Mister is pressurized water
It does not exist in the wild
Rain Is not pressurized water

Well, I am not vigorously against misters, theybserved the hobby and the lhrpose, but for me they are dinosaurs. We know better nowadays.

Here is the link to my "experiment" with fogging...

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/new-humidifier-to-test-the-naturalistic-approach.165524/