Feeder breeder

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Feebo

New Member
Hiya folks :) My name's Ryan or Feebo, whatever floats your boat :) I couldn't see a welcome section so I guess I'll introduce myself with a question. I've recently accuired a pair of veiled chams which are four inches or so not including tail so I guess they're fairly young considering thier growth rate. (Three or four months?) My question is one about food. I'm lucky enough to have a reptile room full of snakes which is lovely and warm. I breed Ethiopian crickets for my Whites tree frogs in that room and they do very well. (They sing like birds, look them up!) so I thought I'd definitely like to breed what I can for my new chams. i do have one requirement though. The feeders need to reproduce almost unaided as I don't really want to be having to incubate eggs seperatly or anything. My Ethiopian crickets just breed like Billyo given the right conditions, regular food and some high humidity laying tubs. Could you guys and girls make some recommendations for me please as to what might be a good idea to breed? I have been reading up on the forum and internet in general but there's little substitute for experienced owners where getting good info is concerned! Well it's nice to meet you :) I love my photography so you'll be seeing lots of photos from me soon :cool:
 
I dont breed them my self (simply because I refuse to do this intentionally) but dubia roaches tend to breed fairly unaided.
You can pretty much buy a breeding colony, set them up, and let them go!
 
I hear dubia are very easy to breed, and they're great feeders for chams.

Welcome to the forums, and congrats on your new additions. :D

You do have the chams housed separately, right? First question that popped into my head, so just wanted to check. :)
 
Oh I tried roaches once. YUK. They really flicked my revulsion switch! So no roaches. In all honesty no. They are together but not for long. I was told by the shop owner that a pair are ok together but from what I read that's quite clearly not the case! This will be thier second night in my snake room by the way. I've just about finished making space to get that female out of there. I have a few spare vivs going in the snake room at the moment so I'll be moving her to her own quarters in a day or two. Now I didn't have to tell you that so please be gentle! lol They will both be in vivariums but what I've done is drill one eighth inch holes in two sides of the plastic viv then covered the holes with medium grade plastic grid mesh to prevent cricket escape. I'm keeping them at 88-90f in the day and that goes down to 85f or so when the light goes out at night. I took out the moss I had in there (again, recommeded to me by you guessed it, man in shop) and I've replaced that with greengrocers "grass" faced downward. Lots of branches of varying thickness and I'll be making a dripper in the workshop tommorrow. Until then they're getting sprayed. Oh and my humidity is high eighties on the last check. Feel free to point out anything you'd do differently, I'm here to learn :)
 
Welcome to the forum!

Your temps sound too high for a young animal

I suspect the crickets you are already breeding will also work for your chameleons. Of course, you want a wide variety of prey, not just crickets! At least four, preferable closer to 10 or more choices.
if dubia roaches are out, and anything with more than one step is out, you're limiting your choices. You could consider terrestrial isopods (aka wood sows, rollie pollies, woodlice). Mealworms are also fairly easy, and can be kept in one bucket (although seperating out the beetles from the larva is better). Small snails might work for you, as you only need one container and not much effort is involved (but it takes a long while before young grow to a useful size). Blue bottle flies may also be an option for you. If there is a wilderness area near you, you could likely install a termite collector out there - just check on it from time to time and replace cardboard now and then - almost entirely maintenance free!

Round out the variety with store bought silkworms, butterworms, the occassional hornworm or superworm, etc

Have a look at this blog entry - its a list of the most common feeder choices, plus info about each:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html

Also check out these links - full of great info for new chameleon owners!
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ryan-jarosek/119-new-arrival-bringing-home.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs...questions.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs...hameleons.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/92-hydration-importance.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/
http://www.chameleonsonline.com/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/olimpia/522-average-cost-owning-chameleon.html
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://www.chromachameleons.com/index.php?page=care
 
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Honestly i 2nd the B.Dubia roach. They are honestly like no other roach i have even known. They don't smell, they don't climb, they are literally "set it and forget it"...They also give LIVE birth, so there are no eggs to incubate.

I got my colony by accident , and they have grown on me. And Chameleons love them and they can be used as a staple.

But i feel your pain about roaches. I can't stand hornworms (no matter how "GREAT" they are nutrition wise.) Yuck! lol
 
The thing I don't like about roaches is the speed they move at and the erratic nature of thier movement. I think coupled with the housefly arrangement on thier legs! Ergh. Well the chameleons come first, if that particular type of roach is a very good cham food I'll have to give them another go won't I. I already breed isopods but they're a small tropical species I use as a custodian later for my snails. (Which aren't being fed to my chams! lol ) I'll be going to my local herp shop soon so any/all of the suggestions in this thread will be on my shopping list. As for leaves, those are essential aswell from what I read but I would like to ask if general salad leaves can be offered? Also, if my temps are too high for youngsters, what temps ARE suitable for youngsters?
 
Also, as for varying thier food, I take it purchasing something different each week at the herp shop will surfice? They don't have to have a large selection of different food items at each feeding? Not a problem if they do really, worth asking. How would you feed isopods then? From what I've read you need to be careful about any debris in the tank because swallowing bits of any substrate used could kill! Isopods are kinda difficult to seperate from the compost I have them in !

Edit.... Looking at them actually it wouldn't be much of a problem brushing them off a bit of lettuce. They are small but if they're nutritious enough to bother with those are certainly a feeding option. I've got enough of them! Been breeding those for ages very very successfully! lol Also, about two years ago I introduced nine earthworms that I'd cleaned for two weeks into my snail tanks to keep the soil clean. (Fantastic job they do too) I now have clean earthworms at biblical proportions. Now I'm betting those guys have a decent nutritional value! So I guess those are an option aswell :) Just got off the phone with my locel herp shop and I'm picking up two sizes of mealworm, calciworm and another one I've forgotten. Can I feed the type of salad leaves you'd buy from the shop?
 
Feebo said:
The thing I don't like about roaches is the speed they move at and the erratic nature of thier movement. I think coupled with the housefly arrangement on thier legs! Ergh. Well the chameleons come first, if that particular type of roach is a very good cham food I'll have to give them another go won't I. I already breed isopods but they're a small tropical species I use as a custodian later for my snails. (Which aren't being fed to my chams! lol ) I'll be going to my local herp shop soon so any/all of the suggestions in this thread will be on my shopping list. As for leaves, those are essential aswell from what I read but I would like to ask if general salad leaves can be offered? Also, if my temps are too high for youngsters, what temps ARE suitable for youngsters?
Click to expand...

Understandable . Funny you say Isopods. Lol they look like large Isopods. Only the males have wings ( and you don't need many males in your colony). I started with 3 females and one male , I now have 20+ nymphs in less than a month)
 
Stay away from the mealworms , they can becoming an impaction risk. Their hard exoskeleton are hard to digest. The calciworms ( phoenix worms) are a great source of natural Calcium. A varied diet is best for your Cham , with some " fatty" Feeders in moderation or as treats.

These are some of the feeders I have available to me that I use.
* Crickets ( feed daily dusted with Cal without D3, this is my staple)
*superworms ( 2-3 times a week, gutloaded with fruits and veggies )
*B.Dubia roaches ( once a week, but once my colony grows they will be fed daily as a staple)
*butterworms/phoenixworms/hornworms whenever I can get my hands on them ( usually once a week, but I would feed these more if I could).

As for the earthworms, I'd assume they would be a good feed and a good source of moisture. But I haven't researched them as feeders. Maybe someone else can chime in.

PS: I'd like to see pix of your other animals. You would like you have one heck of a collection going on.




Feebo said:
Also, as for varying thier food, I take it purchasing something different each week at the herp shop will surfice? They don't have to have a large selection of different food items at each feeding? Not a problem if they do really, worth asking. How would you feed isopods then? From what I've read you need to be careful about any debris in the tank because swallowing bits of any substrate used could kill! Isopods are kinda difficult to seperate from the compost I have them in !

Edit.... Looking at them actually it wouldn't be much of a problem brushing them off a bit of lettuce. They are small but if they're nutritious enough to bother with those are certainly a feeding option. I've got enough of them! Been breeding those for ages very very successfully! lol Also, about two years ago I introduced nine earthworms that I'd cleaned for two weeks into my snail tanks to keep the soil clean. (Fantastic job they do too) I now have clean earthworms at biblical proportions. Now I'm betting those guys have a decent nutritional value! So I guess those are an option aswell :) Just got off the phone with my locel herp shop and I'm picking up two sizes of mealworm, calciworm and another one I've forgotten. Can I feed the type of salad leaves you'd buy from the shop?
Click to expand...
 
Exellent :) Thanks for the help :cool: I'm just about to buy a secod plastic viv to house my female so I'll buy various worms and things that I can't get locally online while I'm at it. :) Oh the salad... Can/should I feed normal shop bought salad leaves? What is the better temperature for youngsters as mentioned earlier? Low
 
Feebo said:
Exellent :) Thanks for the help :cool: I'm just about to buy a secod plastic viv to house my female so I'll buy various worms and things that I can't get locally online while I'm at it. :) Oh the salad... Can/should I feed normal shop bought salad leaves? What is the better temperature for youngsters as mentioned earlier? Low
Click to expand...

You want to have lower basking temps for younger Chams. 80*-85*

As they get older the temps should be higher. My 9 month old Veiled basks in the mid 90's.

I am a little unsure of how or when do you predict the temp increase needs..Is it by age or size?

My Veiled ignores greens, so i have stopped offering it. His free-range Hibiscus has a ton of flowers and young leaves if he ever wanted to try. Never does though. I do gut load the feeders with a mix of these fruits and veggies.
(Romaine lettuce,Mustard Greens,Collard Greens,Kale,Carrots,Yams,Yellow Squash,Zucchini,Orange slices,Apple ,Banana ,broccoli,alfalfa)
 
Cheers :p My temps are down to the right level as of last night. What about humidity? Being as they like loads of ventillation does that automatically mean a maintained humidity level of say eighty five percent wouls tell you that your ventillation is inadequete? Unless your room was eighty five of course. I put a whole load of eighth inch holes in two sides of the viv and covered with plastic mesh to avoid food escaping. Spraying a couple of times a day. I'll do the same to the other plastic viv I've just ordered when it arrives. I suppose a video would be the most helpful as far as asking experienced owners to ok the set up is concerned wouldn't it. I'll have to do that when I get a minute. Soooo busy at the minute.....
 
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