Feel like im failing my chameleon, constant stress.

[nuttyflower]

So. My panther chameleon got sick. went to doctor and went through medications. Spent a lot of money. by end of month doctor did final tests and told me he was good to go.
He never regained his appetite.
Besides that, he seems fine.
However I know chams hide their illness very well. I know he is not "okay".
I have no money left to bring him to vet and do another round of RI medications.

I feel like im really failing him and it keeps me up at night. He won't eat. You know when your chameleon sees food, and both eyes lock on it and they excitedly shoot out there tongue.
Don't even remember the last time mine has done that.
I see him eat maybe 2 feeders every 3 days.

Because he isn't eating a lot, I know he isn't getting the vitamins he needs.

I know. his. enclosure. is near perfect. I. have. done. my. research. despite. vets, forums, and Reddits saying completely. different. things.
hes active, he likes people. His ONLY symptom is appetite.
vet almost laughed in my face when I said no d3 in calcium. He told me they need d3 to synthesize calcium. So I switched to calcium with d3 for a bit. but my Cham was still acting weird so I returned to calcium without d3. Also saw no improvement.
For those wondering, I didn't go to random vet. Went to best one in Vancouver and all BC for chameleons, arbutus, which was originally recommended to me here.

Info
hes 1.3 years old.
2x4 repti breeze
3 sides enclosure in plastic to keep humidity.
basking temps: 85
Ambient: 75. Night time- 60-70
t5 uvb changed every 5ish months

2 misters
ALOT of live plants
around 30 branches
tried all types of methods of feeding. (runners, cups, tongs)
tried. every. food.

Humidity. Used to be 60-70 during day. vet told me to changed it to 80-100 during day. I tried that, but seemed like too much "Still water". So have lowered it a bit.
I am so beyond annoyed at all the off information. And everyone swears they are "Correct"
Vet almost scolded me when he heard my humidity.
Supplement schedule doesn't even matter anymore because he doesn't eat but I do calcium without d3 almost every day and vitamin with d3 once every week. (used to be once every 15 days but vet advised against)

Point is I know it cannot be my husbandry. Ive tried everything.
He either has another RI, or parasites. Last time I had his stool checked it was "Clear" however they did say it takes at least 3 tests to confirm

I don't have money to treat RI or parasites anymore. I need help or guidance.

 

[MzLaurie]

Hello I am so sorry you are having these issues. I really do know where you are coming from. My vet said 80 was not hot enough for my veiled and suggested 95. I did put in a higher watt bulb to bring it up to 90 and he seems to like it with no burns to his casque so I will leave it there. I have seen that chams are slow healers. If your is eating a few bugs every three days then all you can do is offer and make sure he gets nutritious ones like silks. Meds can cause them to stop eating and he may just need time to get back to him self. You don’t happen to live in Calif do you. I finally got a decent vet that does not charge an arm and a leg. His name is Dr Stein of Studio City. I wish you the best of luck

 

[jannb]

Where do you live? I might can find someone to take him and give him whatever he needs.

 

[nuttyflower]

Where do you live? I might can find someone to take him and give him whatever he needs.

I live in Vancouver. the thing is I love him so much. I don't want to give him away. I have poured around 5k+ into him. I had money saved incase he ever needed vet. He went through it all and has drained me.
Im so sad about it. Ive given him all he needs but it never ends.
Just breaks my heart.
I don't want to throw away all the work and love and time ive put into him.
I don't know what to do.

 

[GrannyK]

Personally, I would drop my daytime humidity to 50-60%, use the d3 vitamin only 2x month despite what vet says. I feel like he’s getting too much of both. As for eating, he’s still eating, not much less than the recommended for adults so keep going. Adults don’t need so much and I think the increased humidity and vit will bring disaster. They take long to heal, so the norm if all he is doing is eating less. Just my thoughts, you sound like you know your stuff. Keeping fingers crossed for you.

 

[nuttyflower]

Personally, I would drop my daytime humidity to 50-60%, use the d3 vitamin only 2x month despite what vet says. I feel like he’s getting too much of both. As for eating, he’s still eating, not much less than the recommended for adults so keep going. Adults don’t need so much and I think the increased humidity and vit will bring disaster. They take long to heal, so the norm if all he is doing is eating less. Just my thoughts, you sound like you know your stuff. Keeping fingers crossed for you.

what is adult recommended feeding amount? I know it drops for them but I was NOT Expecting it going to almost 0%. He used TO RUN if he saw a hornworm. Now he could care less.

 

[GrannyK]

what is adult recommended feeding amount? I know it drops for them but I was NOT Expecting it going to almost 0%. He used TO RUN if he saw a hornworm. Now he could care less.

3-4 bugs every 2-3 days. Not a lot. So I don’t think your guy is starving. My guy stopped eating completely when put on parasite meds. It was torture. Just keep offering. Are his eyes sunk in?

 

[MzLaurie]

Adults three feeders every three days plus snacks. I suggest that you don’t increase humidity especially since there was a RI. Make sure you don’t blast him with water or fog too. Make sure you give him space to get away from it if he wants to.

 

[nuttyflower]

3-4 bugs every 2-3 days. Not a lot. So I don’t think your guy is starving. My guy stopped eating completely when put on parasite meds. It was torture. Just keep offering. Are his eyes sunk in?

no his eyes are good. his only symptom is appetite.
3-4 bugs every 2-3 days? Hm. Im going to closely count my chameleon now. Maybe he is okay. He used to poop everyday. Now once a week, is that normal?

How do chams get there correct supplementation if they only eat every 2-3 days?

 

[jannb]

Do you have pictures of your guy to post so we can see what he looks like?

 

[MzLaurie]

Get some carnivore diet to give to him if you think he is starving. Also it will give him a vitamin boost.

 

[nuttyflower]

Get some carnivore diet to give to him if you think he is starving. Also it will give him a vitamin boost.

already got some prepared and stored in my fridge. thing is, hes still 100% normal instead of activity/awakeness. So he would probably go dinosaur mode on me if I attempted trying to get some in his mouth.
HE doesn't look like those half-dead chams u see randomly posted in horrible husbandry. he looks 100% healthy. He NOT SKINNY, he perfect weight.

 

[GrannyK]

no his eyes are good. his only symptom is appetite.
3-4 bugs every 2-3 days? Hm. Im going to closely count my chameleon now. Maybe he is okay. He used to poop everyday. Now once a week, is that normal?

How do chams get there correct supplementation if they only eat every 2-3 days?

Pooping once a week is also normal with the reduced meals. My guy is 2 and he eats 3 crickets or silk worms every few days. Bi weekly supplements don’t change so those are good and the daily, probably because their bones are no longer growing and just maintaining so the calcium is sufficient.

 

[nuttyflower]

TO BE CLEAR: HE doesn't look like those half-dead chams u see randomly posted in horrible husbandry. he looks 100% healthy. He NOT SKINNY, he perfect weight. hes big boy. almost fully grown. u cannot see his ribs at all. His eyes are not sunken.
This is not one of those posts.

 

[jannb]

TO BE CLEAR: HE doesn't look like those half-dead chams u see randomly posted in horrible husbandry. he looks 100% healthy. He NOT SKINNY, he perfect weight. hes big boy. almost fully grown. u cannot see his ribs at all. His eyes are not sunken.
This is not one of those posts.

I’d still like to see a picture before we advise how much he should be eating.

 

[nuttyflower]

I’d still like to see a picture before we advise how much he should be eating.

Oh sorry i didnt see you asking this until after my other reply haha. Heres my best friend.

 

[Decadancin]

Doesn’t look underfed to me, but looks like going through a shed? Often they will not eat much when shedding. Could also be some sort of hunger “strike”. Not sure if I would be concerned just yet.

 

[CalamityCrow]

So the vet saying 80-100% humidity during the day is VERY INCORRECT. That'll cause an RI real fast. It should be 40-50% in the day with enough time for the cage to ENTIRELY dry out, and 80-100% at night, with temps in the 60s Fahrenheit.

As far as eating goes, chams aren't like humans or mammals in general. They really don't need a ton of food. A poop once a week is normal, and so is 2-3 bugs every 2-3 days. Those bugs should be dusted with calcium WITHOUT D3, and 2x a month (say, 1st and 15th or whatever feeding day of the week is closest to that), dust your feeders with Repashy Calcium Plus LoD instead of the regular calcium. That's all a panther needs for supplementation. D3 once a week is too much, and that could be contributing to his appetite issue (and it looks like his eyes may be a touch swollen underneath the turrets, and eye issues come up with too much/too little supplementation).

How long has it been since he's had an appetite? If he's just over a year old, it's time for him to naturally be cutting back on what he's interested in eating. Panthers aren't nearly as endlessly hungry as Veilds are. In your pics, it looks like he's maybe starting to be a toooouch overweight - casque and cheeks shouldn't be convex or puffy. Also, it looks like he's doing some shedding. When my guy is set to shed, he's generally not very hungry at all and will sometimes go a few days without any interest in food with no ill effects. If he's hungry, he eats. If not, it's not a big deal as long as it doesn't go more than a week or so.

I agree - there's a TON of misinformation out there. One of the best places for all-around info is here: https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/ The man who runs this site has kept chams for over 30 years and is extremely active and invested in understanding chameleon husbandry and the science behind it. If there's any expert out there in chams, it's Bill Strand. MOST vets get chams wrong - lizards are odd enough to keep, but chams are the most specialized of all the lizards. Vets, especially generalized exotic vets, don't have the time or resources to truly understand everything they ought to know about all the animals they see, so they do the best they can. Mr. Strand is not only an expert cham keeper, but he keeps up with all the present research and studies about chameleons specifically so he's truly got the most up to date info out there.

Clearly you care very much for your lovely boy ( what's his name?), so I'm glad you're here to help brainstorm what could be causing his lack of appetite. It's a lovely group of people here, so you'll get some good advice!

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome! I’m so glad that you’ve found your way here. Everything I could say has already been said except…. Your guy is beautiful and healthy looking (I agree that he is heading towards being overweight) and that he is fortunate to have you as his keeper. Breathe and try to relax a bit.

 

[Andrew1283]

My boys have both gone on hunger strikes and it drives me crazy. Now that they’re mature they slowed down eating significantly. Your guy looks good, keep up the good work