Female Chameleon not going eating or going #2

[EKEKO]

I have a 7 month old Female Panther chameleon, have had her with me for 4-5 months. She lives at a constant 75-85 temp with a basking spot of 90 and humidity levels ranging from 65 to 80. Full screen cage dressed with a few fake vines, real branches and a small umbrella plant to keep humidity in. Use a 24"repti sun 5.0, zoomed basking lamp with daylight heat bulb(60 watt), automatic mister and I mist her manually twice a day. Her diet consists of crickets and mealworms, both gutloaded with repashybug burger, dusted with Herptivite and Calcium with Vit. D3...10-12 a day All free range method. Handling is very rare, maybe once a week for 5-10 minutes if that much.

Now to the main issue.....10 days ago I decided to try to include into her diet superworms, she ate 2, maybe 1 1/2 inch both and since she has not pooped. Realized she wasn't eating or defecating as she usually does, following advice I decided to give her 1 ml or less of cod liver oil orally followed by a gentle shower (30-45min) with no luck for 2 days. Took her to the vet and they gave her a Gavage with some Mineral oil, following that and a stressful trip to the vet she pooped but not much at all...twice. Decided to take the feces for some testing and a second Gavage with mineral oil, 20 minutes later the vet said parasites were negative.

At home and feeling very uneasy about her health I decided to do my homework and learn, so I have been giving her a shower per day since still 30-45 minutes, where she seems to drink the entire time. And curiously realized that she went from being a light green color to a constant orange/pink pastel color, so said maybe its maturity. Researched about eggs and slowly started seeing signs...she has been coming down to the bottom of the cage and with constant activity. A few days ago introduced soil and a laying bin hoping for the best but still no luck, she still comes down but doesn't even touch the soil.

Don't know what to do, please help me. I have been on constant vigil, she is active still orange/pink, doesn't eat, doesn't poop and is starting to look like she is losing her healthy self... Please help shed any light into this matter.


Jamie.


This is Camille taking a shower a few days ago.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47662&stc=1&d=1326924282

https://www.chameleonforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47663&stc=1&d=1326924420

 

[Solid Snake]

Shes very pretty! She looks large in the middle, she may have eggs. She looks healthy. Your supplements need adjusting, calcium withOUT D3 every feeding, and multivite twice a month, you can use the cal with D3 a couple of times a month if she doesnt get sun. Not sure if thats contibuting to the issue. Anyway you could get a pic of her from the side?

 

[Solid Snake]

Ok that pic works. OMG she looks gravid! Thats huge, especially for such a young one

 

[EKEKO]

Thanks for the feedback on the supplements, I will get on it as soon as I can.

 

[Solid Snake]

I have no experience with females, im sure someone else will have more insight...

 

[EKEKO]

Ok that pic works. OMG she looks gravid! Thats huge, especially for such a young one

She looks very uncomfortable and puffy. Does her coloring have any relation to her being Gravid? Also what should I do to aid her in laying eggs and relieving her. The laying bin I could fit in her enclosure is 12"longx6"widex5"deep but she doesn't go inside the bin she walks around it but nothing else.

 

[Solid Snake]

Place her in the bin to let her know its there if you havnt yet. I am refering to her size and puffyness when I say she looks gravid. Her colors are beautiful. Can you feel her stomach and feel if she has eggs?

 

[EKEKO]

Place her in the bin to let her know its there if you havnt yet. I am refering to her size and puffyness when I say she looks gravid. Her colors are beautiful. Can you feel her stomach and feel if she has eggs?

Her stomach shows no tactile signs of marble shaped or ovaloids in her, but thought maybe it would be different seeing that these eggs would be empty??

 

[Solid Snake]

Im not sure. Just trying to think of everything I can. When exactly was the last time she deficated?

 

[sandrachameleon]

I would reduce the temperature. Panther females do not need to be kept that hot, and higher heat and lots of food encourage excessive egg production.
I would not be adding oil to her diet. I would reduce the use of mealworms, consider reducing the quantity of bugs per day generally, but add in other feeder choices. Mealworms and supers are high fat. Okay in moderation, but consider instead or rather in addition some other prey choices.
Dehydration due to high heat is a possibility.
You are using more supplement than I would recommend. D3 is not needed that often, especially as you are including it already via gutload
She looks like she's making eggs - quite fat

 

[Solid Snake]

Is it just obese maybe?

 

[EKEKO]

I would reduce the temperature. Panther females do not need to be kept that hot, and higher heat and lots of food encourage excessive egg production.
I would not be adding oil to her diet. I would reduce the use of mealworms, consider reducing the quantity of bugs per day generally, but add in other feeder choices. Mealworms and supers are high fat. Okay in moderation, but consider instead or rather in addition some other prey choices.
Dehydration due to high heat is a possibility.
You are using more supplement than I would recommend. D3 is not needed that often, especially as you are including it already via gutload
She looks like she's making eggs - quite fat

Yes I have recently ordered silkworms, wax worms and sow bugs to include in her diet and I will note all the great advise but any advice to get her back into eating or pooping, I just want her to feel better. and if its eggs how can I induce or stimulate egg laying?

 

[carol5208]

Yes I have recently ordered silkworms, wax worms and sow bugs to include in her diet and I will note all the great advise but any advice to get her back into eating or pooping, I just want her to feel better. and if its eggs how can I induce or stimulate egg laying?

did the vet not notice if she was carrying eggs? Loss of appetite is common when they have eggs. She sure looks big to me. Your bin should be atleast 12 inches deep and the sand should be moist enough to hold a tunnel. Let me attach a blog for you all about egg laying from one of our members. If she is with eggs and does not lay she will become eggbound. The vet can give her a shot to induce egg laying. here is the blog https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

 

[sandrachameleon]

If I am understanding correctly, it's been about a week without food? That's not a panic situation, so long as she is still drinking. Quite possibly she is getting ready to lay eggs, which commonly means reduced appetite or no eating at all.
Silkworms and sow bugs are great. Waxworms she doesnt need - they are all fat and she does not look whatsoever underweight

 

[EKEKO]

The vet said the only sure way of knowing if she had eggs was doing and xray and it was a ridiculous amount of money and it wasn't even solving the problem so I thought I should try elsewhere...I'm struck out of cash for a few more weeks but she cant wait that long. The lack of passion on that vet disappointed me greatly and will try a bigger bin.

 

[EKEKO]

If I am understanding correctly, it's been about a week without food? That's not a panic situation, so long as she is still drinking. Quite possibly she is getting ready to lay eggs, which commonly means reduced appetite or no eating at all.
Silkworms and sow bugs are great. Waxworms she doesnt need - they are all fat and she does not look whatsoever underweight

Can I give her any supplements orally to aid her period of laying eggs?

 

[sandrachameleon]

well, its true that an xray would show if there were well formed eggs.

Myself, and admittedly I have a fair bit of exerience and thus confidence, I'd increase her water access, ensure she has a good laying site, and otherwise mostly leave her alone, even mostly cover the cage so she doesnt see you (but watch what that does to your temps). I commend your efforts with the vet and your concern, but its possible that she just is preparing to lay eggs, and fussing around her in that situation doesnt help - it could put her off.

 

[EKEKO]

I will give her more privacy and continue with the daily shower. Also will keep her small laying bin and when I see any signs of digging will transfer her to a bigger bin. Thank you for the advice. Do you know if her current colors are gravid colors?

 

[sandrachameleon]

I will give her more privacy and continue with the daily shower. Also will keep her small laying bin and when I see any signs of digging will transfer her to a bigger bin. Thank you for the advice. Do you know if her current colors are gravid colors?

are you removing her from the cage for the shower? if so, consider using a dripper on the cage instead.

Some ladies will not scratch in a tiny bin. They insist on a proper, big and deep bin, the top of which is the lowest place in the cage. I have to stuff towels around a big bin in a bigger cage for one of my girls, so she cant get lower without digging, or she wont look at it

No, well, she looks like she has somewhat gravid colours, and girth wise she does look like there may be eggs. Unless you show a her a male, she may not show striking dark colours.
Have a look at these pictures: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/112-photos-female-panther.html
and these: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/112-photos-female-panther.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/gravid-panther-29089/
females arent all exactly the same, each one will show differently. But once you know your girl, you can rely on her to be the same each time

 

[EKEKO]

All this helps a ton...and now she has a deeper bigger bin to lay in, but still no signs of her wanting to go on the soil to do her thing...Any other advice?? also when is it time to be really worried in these type of situations??