Ferdinand update

[Lathis]

First off, thank you to everyone who has reached out asking how the Ferds is doing. I really appreciate the kind thoughts. It's been a stressful couple of days/weeks/months, and having my chameleon friends has been really great.

Quick update:

Ferdinand had a very hard weekend. After finishing his latest round of anti-parasite medicines (flagyl and panacur), I did a complete refresh of his cage to lower the possibility of reinfection. It's a bit bare now without any plants Ferds seemed to rally a bit. He started eating better and several poops looked normal. This week to have a follow up fecal test done.

Last Wednesday, Ferds stopped eating. I had been supplementing Reptaboost in with his insects, so I continued to give small amounts of that. On Friday, he stopped drinking no matter how much we misted or dripped. He also had a weird episode where he went totally limp, almost like he passed out and seemed dazed for several hours. Made my husband panic, thinking he had overheated.

This morning (Monday), he was half fallen off his vines, had almost no grip strength, and again seemed strangely limp. I tried to give him a little water and some Reptaboost, but he wouldn't swallow. He also started grabbing at the air and grabbing his own limbs. He seemed very weak and disoriented. Plus, he lost another 2 grams over the weekend.

I took him in for an emergency vet visit. They were able the check his stool for parasites - the fecal test did come back clean! Some good news, at least. Ferds was definitely dehydrated, so the vet administered IV fluids with some glucose. He also is having some blood work done. We should get the results tomorrow or Wednesday.

He's home now and seems quite a bit better. The fluids must have done really well for him. I'm sure the poor little guy is malnourished. Hopefully, we can get through this and get back on the road to feeling better.

 

[jannb]

Poor little Ferdinand, poor you and your husband. Ferd has been through so much lately. Excellent on the clean fecal. I hope this is the turn around for him. I will keep all of you in my prayers.

 

[MelissaB]

I'm so sorry that Ferdinand has had such a rough time. Glad to hear that he had a clean fecal. Hope he continues to improve.

 

[JoeVet]

Post the bloodwork when you get it. Sounds like you have a good vet there. Best of luck.

 

[bobcochran]

Hopefully the IV fluids will get him over the hump and he can carry on his recovery with your help. Good luck!

 

[junglefries]

Go Ferdie, Go Ferdie..... time for you to make a new rap to help him feel better. Probably just got a case of the DTs from being sick. Give him a couple alcohol prep pads to chew on and he'll be right as rain.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Lathis, I just send you a PM.

 

[Lathis]

Go Ferdie, Go Ferdie..... time for you to make a new rap to help him feel better. Probably just got a case of the DTs from being sick. Give him a couple alcohol prep pads to chew on and he'll be right as rain.

I knew when he didn't go for his morning Mimosa that we had a problem.

Lathis, I just send you a PM.

Got em. Thank you for the detailed info on your fight with your WC quads. I sent you a PM as well, but I'll summarize my response here for others. I did think of the "post parasite crash" that wild caughts sometimes undergo after treatment because of the heavy parasite loads - the cycle seems to be very similar for my Ferds: He responds well to treatment, starts to get better, then rapidly gets ill again. The thought is the dead/dying parasites overwhelm the system, causing infection, suppressing the immune system, and when the life cycle of any remaining parasites starts again, the cham is weakened and the parasites again get out of control.

Like I said in my PM, I definitely don't trust one clean fecal check; it will take several months of testing to make me feel better, but i do hope it's movement in the right direction after failure of the first round of medicine to reduce the parasite count.

I'm also hoping the blood work will come back with something useful. I think my vet is a good vet, but I doubt he sees a large percentage of exotics with issues, particularly exotics as sensitive as chams. If I can get a copy of the blood work report, I will post it here for educational purposes.

Right now, my battle is to keep him eating and drinking. He was down to 50g this morning (from 65g when healthy). I can force food and liquids, but that's not a long term solution, and he's already so weak. I'm hoping the re-hydration perks him up and we can start getting back to normal. I am very worried about his calcium levels; i imagine the blood work will show depressed calcium levels, and I'll ask for a calcium injection.

I'm emotionally tapped out after today. I haven't cried this much in forever.

 

[JoeVet]

If he is WC you also have to worry about blood parasites and filarial worms. The falaria live under the skin or in the body cavity and produce microworms that can be seen in the blood. There are also viruses and parasites that can infect blood cells. A good exam of a WC should include a blood smear.

 

[Lathis]

He's not WC, but there may be some parallels in issues with parasite treatment seen by several forum members awhile back. Poor little Ferds.

 

[JoeVet]

Also panacur (fenbendazole) can cause problems in itself. It is known to cause mild anemia and decreased immune cells (granulocytes) in birds, mammals and reptiles. If using it routinely without a diagnosis of fecal parasites it can cause problems.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Got em. Thank you for the detailed info on your fight with your WC quads. I sent you a PM as well, but I'll summarize my response here for others. I did think of the "post parasite crash" that wild caughts sometimes undergo after treatment because of the heavy parasite loads - the cycle seems to be very similar for my Ferds: He responds well to treatment, starts to get better, then rapidly gets ill again. The thought is the dead/dying parasites overwhelm the system, causing infection, suppressing the immune system, and when the life cycle of any remaining parasites starts again, the cham is weakened and the parasites again get out of control.

My vet thinks the explanation of why they crash is a bit more than just a lot of dead and dying parasites. In fact, I don't think that is a problem since Panacur does not kill parasites anywhere in the body (of reptiles) other than the gut. It does with other animals like mammals, but not reptiles. They should just be digested and pass out. When you have dying parasites overwhelming a system, it is when they are dying in the body--the lungs, the heart, the circulatory system or the muscles--and the body's immune system mounts a defense to them. Sometime's the immune system's response to them causes catastrophic results (think of what happens to dogs being treated for heart worms).

My vet's explanation of why OldChamKeeper's antibiotic therapy worked for wild caughts that were doing well and suddenly crash a month or two after import is that the parasite load skyrocketed at import. Those parasites literally burst through the body. The necropsy by my vet on a 14g quad that died of lungworms, we found a two inch living worm just floating and wiggling around in the abdominal cavity. Two inches and alive!!! It got to the abdominal cavity by piercing through something.

Most parasites go through many different stages in their life cycle. A typical life cycle would be the egg or larvae is eaten, the larvae then pierces through the gut and enters the blood stream where it goes to a lot of places like the liver and heart. It ends up in the lungs where it is coughed up and swallowed. At this point it is mature and lives in the gut producing eggs. To get to that point, it has put a lot of holes in the host's body. If there are enough holes, especially from the bacteria laden gut into the blood stream and with a suppressed immune system, there can be an infection. My vet said that the antibiotic OldChamKeeper used was used for intestinal infections.

Good luck with Ferdinand.

 

[jajeanpierre]

If he is WC you also have to worry about blood parasites and filarial worms. The falaria live under the skin or in the body cavity and produce microworms that can be seen in the blood. There are also viruses and parasites that can infect blood cells. A good exam of a WC should include a blood smear.

A blood smear looking for what?

You would have had a lot of fun with the necropsy of my 14g quad that had three lung worms (about 1.5" long) and a 2" worm wiggling around in the abdominal cavity.

 

[Trace]

I hope my man Ferdinand gets better real soon; he is one of my favourite chameleons.

 

[Lathis]

Thanks, everyone. Everything I can learn helps me help Ferdinand.

 

[bobcochran]

I can't help but wonder where such a debilitating parasite load is coming from in a captive bred Jackson and he being your sole cham(do you have others, have you recently obtained new reptiles?) Could it be secondary due to some other internal problem compromising his immune system? You are so thorough I bet you've already thought through this?
Let's go Ferdinand!!

 

[Lathis]

I can't help but wonder where such a debilitating parasite load is coming from in a captive bred Jackson and he being your sole cham(do you have others, have you recently obtained new reptiles?) Could it be secondary due to some other internal problem compromising his immune system? You are so thorough I bet you've already thought through this?
Let's go Ferdinand!!

He previously had a nasty infection in his esophagus. I'm not sure what that came from, maybe a scratch or cut from a feeder? We were able to treat the infection as far as we can tell, but I think being ill either allowed a natural parasite load to get out of control or he contracted a parasite at that time due to a compromised immune system. If there is still any underlying infection, I'm hoping it shows up in the blood work

 

[Lathis]

Update today

Ferdie has been on a serious downhill path since getting back home on Monday. The blood test results came in today. As the vet explained them to me, the results indicate that he is having liver failure as his AST levels were 4x or 5x what would be considered "high". Between the test results, his continued decline, and his unwillingness to eat or drink on his own, I made the decision to have him put down this morning. I'm really upset, but I think it was the right decision.

I've attached the blood test results for anyone who is interested. I don't know how to interpret them, but I thought it would be useful information for the future.

 

[bobcochran]

I'm so sorry to hear this. You know you did everything you possibly could do.
It was the right decision, now you have to think of all the good things you have done for him.
RIP Ferdinand.

 

[Kayroxyoursox]

Sorry for your loss