First clutch? (Another newbie looking for reassurance)

[Kiraral]

Hi all,

I couldn’t decide if this belonged here or in breeding, so if I chose wrong I apologize!

So I bought my first chameleon, a female veiled, a couple of weeks ago. I was told she was about 5 months at the time, but I didn’t get her directly from the breeder. Yesterday she only ate 1 roach, and I saw she had been digging about in one of her plants, so this morning before work I set up an impromptu lay bin (or at least a starter, to see if she was truely starting to dig.). I filled it with a mix of soil and sand, put a sheet over her cage, and left for the day. She’s currently digging away down there.

The bin she has now in 12” across and about 14” deep. I know she may well need something bigger. But, I also don’t want to disturb her by pulling her out of one bin and into another. At what point would you recommend I move her? I was thinking if she came out but still hadn’t laid, I’d give her a bigger space then?

• Your Chameleon - Femae, veiled, approx 5-6 months, has been in my care almost 2 weeks.
• Handling - I’ve had her out a couple of times
• Feeding - she gets an assortment of feeder insects (roaches, crickets, a couple super worms, a couple horn worms, bsfl) all gut fed on a wide variety of foods I found on cam safe gut load lists. Greens, fruits, veggies, seeds/nuts, etc.
• Supplements - She gets calcium w/out d3 daily, and has been given it with once so far. I was planning to start her on a multivit this weekend, and alternate that with the d3 so she gets each e/o week.
• Watering - Mist king system, 4x daily, 7 min at a time.
• Fecal Description - Dark brown, formed but not hard, white urates w/ some light yellow. Never been tested.
• History - Random but relevant info at the start of the post.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 18x18x24 screen w/plastic around 2 sides.
• Lighting - Lights on for 12 hours a day, some natural dim light at dawn and dusk right now, her room has windows. Repti sun uvb light (long kind) and low wattage basking light (25 or 50? I’ll look for the box) on a dimmer.
• Temperature - Temp in the basking spot is in the mid 80s, I turn down the dimmer on hotter days. Temps get down to the 70’s at night. Once it gets colder her room has previously gotten as cool as 65, but I can easily increase the heat this winter. I have a temp gun I used to measure.
• Humidity - Averages around 60, obviously lower as the cage dries and higher after misting.
• Plants - She has a Pothos, a money tree, and a hibiscus bush.
• Placement - The cage is in my sun room/hobby room. Low traffic. I live alone, and the cats aren’t allowed in there unless I’m in there to keep an eye on them (all my house plants and tarantulas live in this room)
• Location - central MA

Current Problem - I’m more looking for advice about when this would become a problem. I know that I worry easily about new things. I have a vet who sees exotics that I’d bring her to if necessary.

My current thought process is (other than covering her cage and not offering food) to not changing anything re: misting and lighting and just let her do her thing for now, but I guess I’m wondering what would be the indicators that I need to bring her in? I have read different things about how long she will dig for. I would guess we are beyond the test holes at this point (I think she’s totally covered in dirt and seems to have no intention of coming back on a branch tonight, but I haven’t gotten a great look) but I have no experience with this.

 

[JacksJill]

If she abandons that hole with out laying then you might want to try something else but that bin sounds like a decent size. it's a good sign that she is willing to stay with it this long.
I'll let people who own egg layers take over your questions from here but I bet she lays by tomorrow.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

12x14 is plenty large enough for a lay bin, my females is a 12x12 round pot. She digs all the way to the bottom every time.

I know your not going to listen when I say this but I’m going to say it anyway... RELAX! It sounds like you have done your homework and if you have there is no reason to worry. You have done your part, now it’s her turn. I’d be surprised if she didn’t lay tonight by the sound of it.

But since you asked I wouldn’t consider bringing her in unless she stops digging and won’t restart on her own or she starts napping during the day.

I worried myself for no reason when I was waiting for mine to lay her first clutch as all new owners do. Nothing wrong with that, just means you care!

Let her do her thing tonight and check on her in the morning, I think you will be relieved! Please give us an update either way...

 

[Brodybreaux25]

... one question, you made no mention of adding some water to her lay bin, did you?

 

[Kiraral]

Thank you guys for putting my mind at ease! I trust the people on this forum. Once I’ve lived it with her once or twice it will be old hat and I’m sure I’ll end up with a few of these amazing creatures.

Yes, I should have included that. I made it moist but not soaking, should hold a tunnel.

 

[Chameleon Mike]

12x14 is plenty large enough for a lay bin, my females is a 12x12 round pot. She digs all the way to the bottom every time.

I know your not going to listen when I say this but I’m going to say it anyway... RELAX! It sounds like you have done your homework and if you have there is no reason to worry. You have done your part, now it’s her turn. I’d be surprised if she didn’t lay tonight by the sound of it.

But since you asked I wouldn’t consider bringing her in unless she stops digging and won’t restart on her own or she starts napping during the day.

I worried myself for no reason when I was waiting for mine to lay her first clutch as all new owners do. Nothing wrong with that, just means you care!

Let her do her thing tonight and check on her in the morning, I think you will be relieved! Please give us an update either way...

Very good advise. You would do good following @Brodybreaux25. He knows what he is talking about.
Do you have a pic of your set up and of the chameleon? If she is only 5 months this should be an infertile clutch. Good luck I'm sure your girl will be fine.

 

[Kiraral]

Here is a pic of the set up from when I brought her home, it has since had more wood and vines added to give her more walkways and less open space. It’s seems that she uses them a quite a bit. To try and paint a mental picture there’sa large, forked piece of drift wood and well as 4-5 andgled dowels. Now I’m really wishing I had taken another pic sooner....ah well.

I don’t want to pester her, but it looks like she slept in her hole last night. I’ve seen others post about their females spending the night there, but it is alarming when an arborial animal is in the dirt!

In hindsight I’m suspecting that the bright yellow in some of the pics is an indication that she was forming eggs/receptive to being bred?

In the last pic of her she is sitting in a hibiscus tree in the sun (only supervised).

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Here is a pic of the set up from when I brought her home, it has since had more wood and vines added to give her more walkways and less open space. It’s seems that she uses them a quite a bit. To try and paint a mental picture there’sa large, forked piece of drift wood and well as 4-5 andgled dowels. Now I’m really wishing I had taken another pic sooner....ah well.

I don’t want to pester her, but it looks like she slept in her hole last night. I’ve seen others post about their females spending the night there, but it is alarming when an arborial animal is in the dirt!

In hindsight I’m suspecting that the bright yellow in some of the pics is an indication that she was forming eggs/receptive to being bred?

Sleeping in the hole is a good sign! I’ve never had one sleep in the hole that wasnt 100% committed to laying in that hole. You are correct on not pestering her here, this is a critical junction.

And yes female colors are at their brightest when they are looking for a boyfriend. Kinda like how your girl getting ready to go to the club. Then once fertilized they turn darker and get grumpy until they lay, again like your girl! lol

Here are a couple pics of mine, first is receptive, second is gravid. I’m expecting eggs in the next week or two. I can tell because she always develops a bit of edema right before she lays and always clears up after she lays...

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Very good advise. You would do good following @Brodybreaux25. He knows what he is talking about.
Do you have a pic of your set up and of the chameleon? If she is only 5 months this should be an infertile clutch. Good luck I'm sure your girl will be fine.

Thanks Mike!

 

[Tucklander]

Very good advise. You would do good following @Brodybreaux25. He knows what he is talking about.
Do you have a pic of your set up and of the chameleon? If she is only 5 months this should be an infertile clutch. Good luck I'm sure your girl will be fine.

@Brodybreaux25 is great...and him and also @jamest0o0 have always helped me...and gave me advice. They’re good guys!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Thanks, I learned a lot from James in my early days as well!

 

[Tucklander]

Sleeping in the hole is a good sign! I’ve never had one sleep in the hole that wasnt 100% committed to laying in that hole. You are correct on not pestering her here, this is a critical junction.

And yes female colors are at their brightest when they are looking for a boyfriend. Kinda like how your girl getting ready to go to the club. Then once fertilized they turn darker and get grumpy until they lay, again like your girl! lol

Here are a couple pics of mine, first is receptive, second is gravid. I’m expecting eggs in the next week or two. I can tell because she always develops a bit of edema right before she lays and always clears up after she lays...View attachment 211710View attachment 211711

Beautiful pictures...

 

[Kiraral]

Great pics!

The members here are a wealth of information, but not at all condescending. It takes a love of the hobby and animals to be patient with newcomers regarding basics.

Very happy to report that I came home to my little Iggy, dirty and skinny, back on a perch! She laid about 61 eggs, all the way at the bottom of her lay bin. I had to laugh, she took a clear, flat dish (that I put her bsfl in) and some of the river rocks and put those right over the top, too! She’ seems quite strong, not lethargic or anything. She’s eating and drinking. I don’t normally feed her at night, but I couldn’t help myself from offering her a couple bugs. She’ll get a big, well rounded and dusted meal in the morning. I attached some pics.

She looks like she may have some edema under her chin, but she’s also just dropped some weight. (Last pic)

 

[Chameleon Mike]

@Brodybreaux25 is great...and him and also @jamest0o0 have always helped me...and gave me advice. They’re good guys!

I agree. Also @Matt Vanilla Gorilla is a great guy to take advise from.

 

[Chameleon Mike]

Great pics!

The members here are a wealth of information, but not at all condescending. It takes a love of the hobby and animals to be patient with newcomers regarding basics.

Very happy to report that I came home to my little Iggy, dirty and skinny, back on a perch! She laid about 61 eggs, all the way at the bottom of her lay bin. I had to laugh, she took a clear, flat dish (that I put her bsfl in) and some of the river rocks and put those right over the top, too! She’ seems quite strong, not lethargic or anything. She’s eating and drinking. I don’t normally feed her at night, but I couldn’t help myself from offering her a couple bugs. She’ll get a big, well rounded and dusted meal in the morning. I attached some pics.

She looks like she may have some edema under her chin, but she’s also just dropped some weight. (Last pic)

Great news. Thanks for the update. You got your first egg laying under your belt. Congrats.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Great pics!

The members here are a wealth of information, but not at all condescending. It takes a love of the hobby and animals to be patient with newcomers regarding basics.

Very happy to report that I came home to my little Iggy, dirty and skinny, back on a perch! She laid about 61 eggs, all the way at the bottom of her lay bin. I had to laugh, she took a clear, flat dish (that I put her bsfl in) and some of the river rocks and put those right over the top, too! She’ seems quite strong, not lethargic or anything. She’s eating and drinking. I don’t normally feed her at night, but I couldn’t help myself from offering her a couple bugs. She’ll get a big, well rounded and dusted meal in the morning. I attached some pics.

She looks like she may have some edema under her chin, but she’s also just dropped some weight. (Last pic)

Excellent job, the first one is always the toughest!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Glad to hear that she has readily taking in food and water, she needs lots of both over the next few days. 61 eggs is a very large clutch and is very taxing on her body so I’d recommend setting a goal to get her clutch sizes down into the mid 40s two clutches from now. Do you know what two factors can be manipulated to control the size of the clutch?

 

[Kiraral]

Thank you guys!

I was amazed at how many there were. From what I have read, keeping her temps and food intake low can decrease the clutch size, which makes sense. Once she has recovered from this clutch I’d like to reduce her to every other day. How long should I feed her really well after this one, a week perhaps, then back off? It been quite warm here for the most part since I got her, but this is the warmest part of the year.

I’m also going to pick up a gram scale, so I can monitor her weight. Once I get an initial weight on her (I’ll measure her as well) I’ll post here for thoughts on it.

What amazing creatures.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Good job! Sorry for only jumping in now, did not notice this thread till Mike invited me in.

You can put the eggs submerged half way in most sand or vermiculite at room temperature and watch them for a couple of weeks (if you know she mated with a male, if not, just toss the eggs.) If they are fertile they will still look nice at the end of a few weeks. If not fertile they will most likely be molded and shriveled up after a few weeks.

Good luck!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Thank you guys!

I was amazed at how many there were. From what I have read, keeping her temps and food intake low can decrease the clutch size, which makes sense. Once she has recovered from this clutch I’d like to reduce her to every other day. How long should I feed her really well after this one, a week perhaps, then back off? It been quite warm here for the most part since I got her, but this is the warmest part of the year.

I’m also going to pick up a gram scale, so I can monitor her weight. Once I get an initial weight on her (I’ll measure her as well) I’ll post here for thoughts on it.

What amazing creatures.

You have done your homework! Yes, temperature and food. I think letting her eat as much as she wants over the next week will do and like you said back her off after that. My first clutch size was 64, then low 50s, and the last was around mid 40s. So you can probably expect to see a similar drop off over her next two clutches.

...and yes, they are amazing creatures!