Florida Veiled

Interesting to say the least never new they are so abundant. I wouldn't think putting a dent in the insect population would bother most Floridans. Of coarse I realize insects play a major role in the ecosystem you would think Florida has plenty to go around.
 
Dean Pulcini said:
Sounds like Madagascar all over again. I would be inclined to look but don't touch and let them establish themselves.
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I couldn't disagree more.
These animals need to be collected (no bag limits) in order to somewhat control this feral population.


-Brad
 
That article was written in 02. They observed 70 over a nine night period, not consecutive nights. It sounds like they are abundant if you look in the right area. The sad thing is, sounds like they destroyed all of those they collected. It doesn't outright say that, but that's what I gleaned from the article.
 
Wow, interesting to read these chams are living in Florida! I live in Cape Town, and although I wouldn't attempt it myself, I reckon Veiled's would be able to live here in the wild, aswell as other areas in South Africa. The climate is not harsh, the numerous local chamelons bearing testimony to this. Oh well, its a thought.
 
Dankmeleon said:
no offense there could have maybe been a little bit wrong with my statement, perhaps there were others I didn't know about but everything about your statement was double wrong I garuntee you they can not live in north florida when it freezes because they can take it sometimes, do you know how hard cold rain is? that is why they don't massively populate and there arent way more on the market i would believe correct me if i'm wrong, they do well in small systems
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Rubbish? Florida's climate is very mild compared to Yemen and Saudi Arabia. They endure hotter temperatures in Yemen, and go through periods of drought. They can deal with freezing temperatures, probably by burrowing, something they do in their native habitat.

The reason Florida has become such a mess of invasive species is because it's such an easy place for other species to settle. Just because an animal is adapted to a harsh climate doesn't mean that the harsh climate is necessary for them to survive. If my statement was "rubbish," these animals wouldn't have such an easy time gaining a foothold. Keep in mind that their population shave started from a small founding group.

When I speak of North Florida, I was referring to MONTANE species. Veileds could live for a while there, but the winter would possibly make it too difficult for them, certainly for the little ones. Other species will survive weeks of near-freezing temperatures, provided the sun shines.

The climate of southern Florida is hospitible enough for almost any species of chameleon to survive. They'll probably concentrate there. However, I wouldn't be surprised if something like montium or jacksonii were able to adapt and move north a bit over time. There's lizards bigger than them living in the woods up here in the mountains of NC.
 
The problem is that Florida's natural ecosystem is effectivly altered. Totally. There's too many invasive plants, let alone insects, mammals, reptiles and birds.

It all started en mass in the 70's, when big-time importers had surplus stock. When the market for an animal went down - so far down, it was not economical to house them - they were thrown out into the glades.

A friend of mine, who worked in the zoos back then, had become good friends with all the big importers/dealers. They told him they took a few dozen snakes, put them in a spot in the glades, and when the market fo rthem went up - they knew where they could collect them. And they did. The things started breeding like crazy. Everything they let go did - monitors, iguanas, anoles, pythons, cobras, mambas - everything. Not everything was released intentionally, of course.

Now, Florida has massive nile monitors, savanna monitors, herds of iguanas, non-native venomous snakes, basilisks, chameleons, poison dart frogs, poisonous giant cane toads, caimen.... pretty much anything you could imagine that's no so expensive that you'd make SURE it didn't escape!

So, idealistically, we'd want to eliminate them invasive chameleons. However, realistically, it's not going to make a difference. Chameleons eat bugs. There's a good chance most of their impact will be against non-native species anyway.

With invasives, the most damage comes at the bottom - plants. Then invasive insects. Chameleons arent' going to do much damage to the overall picture. Plants and insects will - they'll change the entire biotic community.

The large predators, on the othe rhand, can affect individual species directly. Chameleons might be a probelm to say, green anoles - but the brown anoles are even more damaging. Veileds might even help control those little buggers.
Nile monitors are doing a number on the burrowing owls - you can imagine how easily they'd slink down a hole. Large snakes are just dangerous to have out there.

I dont' think eradication programs are good for all these invasives. Unregulated collection is a BAD bad idea. Very bad. Some collection is fine, but there needs to be some laws in place preventign release. That's where the unregulated open season on collection is bad - without checks and balances, it'll encourage people to establish populations of non-native species for collection purposes.

On the other hand, I am not going to get a collection permit!

Anyone find out where they are down there, let me know!
 
i like the idea of a field trip. i was down in Gainesville last october for the fest, and it was a lot of fun. i dont need a hotel or a tent i will just sleep in my neon, like i did in florida, and the two separate weeks i spend in canada. it saves money and makes your trip better. also i think that we should collect them because they will be killed if collected by the government or some sort. a lot of people on this forum can give them a good home and if a few people do go collecting they could ship them to the people who would pay for shipping and care for them. i think that their should not be a charge other then shipping because who wouldent enjoy going herping for chams. it would be a pleasurable experience, and you dont need to gain anything off of it except the experience. you will also be doing some people a good deed in getting them chams, for cheep that they could take care of fully. note that you must know that they will take care of them good and get them de wormed and all that parasite stuff. if i did want to go take a vacation down there and someone on here did get the information about where to find them i would like to know. i would like to observe them and maybe make a few notes on size, weight, colors, male to female ratios. also you do have the right to refuse anyone on here, that you think would be a bad choice to give the information of where they are located. if you think they are only doing it for personal money gain then please i would refrain from doing it. also i would ask not to publicly note where you can find them without much decision. if you publicly note where they are then people can exploit that free source of income and sell them to people who would not care for them properly. i know that they are not native there, but they also would not be killed off or sold to just anyone. all chameleons should have a proper home. just a thought.
 
If anyone wants a gorgeous Florida caught HUGE male Veiled-there is still one available at the Pet store here. They are pretty decent with Reptiles and he has been in captivity now for roughly a month. I can get pictures-if I had room for more Veileds I would have him.
 
I don't want one of these! I'm afraid they might get loose at night and kill my dog,cats, family members, etc...
 
Where did this person find it? I might be heading down there this weekend and maybe I can find one :D:D:eek::D:cool:
 
:eek::(:mad::eek::(:mad:

Who all knows, Maybe if they PM me then only I would be the one to know. :confused: I really want to try and find one. Is there like a limit to how many you can get?
 
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