Food source in Saudi Arabia (Western Province)

[ragidi]

I recently posted that I got a pet chameleon (Here is my first thread about it).

Before posting this thread, I asked all the pet stores I can find about whether they provide live insects. I only found one place which gets, quoting the guy who told me, "white worms" to feed fish. He has no idea what species they are.
I also asked a biology professor from the local university if she knows a place for bugs, but she told me she hunts for bugs herself.

I just bought a bug net and I am willing to go hunt if it means my Alphys will live (yes I named her Alphys ).

Which brings us to the main question: what bugs are NOT OK for chameleons?

I'm from Saudi Arabia, Western Province.
I'll list the bugs I can currently get my hands on:
- house flies
- cockroaches
- mosquitoes
- ants
- grasshoppers (I need to travel to the neighboring city for those)
- earthworms

I also have 3 bags of freeze dried grasshoppers, which I know is not sufficient enough. It's a temporary solution until I can go bug catching tomorrow.

Any advice/suggestions is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

P.S. If there are fellow Saudis here, how did you get food for your chameleon?
(Arabic translation below)
أخواني/أخواتي السعوديين, كيف تمكنتوا من توفير الغذاء للحرباء الأليفة. شكرا جزيلا

 

[jajeanpierre]

Salaam Aleykum! Where are you located? I lived three years in Jeddah before moving to Riyadh for another eight years, but we left for good in 2003. I am sure it has changed a lot since I lived there.

The problem you will find is getting a regular supply of proper-sized live food. Cockroaches will be plentiful, but you will need to set up a breeding colony so they are free of pesticides. I wouldn't want to feed the Saudi cockroaches inside the house as they will escape and live in your home. You will have escapees even if you only hand feed. Perhaps you can set up an outdoor cage for feeding so there is no harm done if they escape.

Flies are also an option.

Where are you keeping Alphys? Inside or out? Although they are native to the south west escarpment, I think that inside a tree or in a wadi with a bit of greenery will be a lot cooler than the outside temperature without the plant cover. I really notice this where I live in south central Texas. Two thirds of my property is covered in mature oak trees. The other side of the property has few trees. There is a huge difference in temperature between the two sides of the property--the sun just bakes the ground on the treeless side and it radiates up. Under the oaks, the trees breath and actually keep the area a lot cooler as well as shading everything. So, if you have your chameleon outside, even though you are in the area it is from, if there isn't a lot of plant cover you might overheat him/her during the day.

Do the pet stores sell meal worms? Although not an ideal food, you can make them healthier by feeding them good fresh food and at least it is food. You can set up a colony easily so at least you will always have something to feed.

I hope that helps.

 

[ragidi]

W Alaykom al Salam jajeanpierre
I'm from Jeddah, and yes drastic changes have happened since 2003. Fun fact: we have an aquarium now!

Alphys is staying inside. I'm still checking for live bugs in some non-pet stores, so I hope I'll find some soon. To be honest, I'd rather steer clear of breeding cockroaches. I'm OK with breeding any other kind of bug though.

As for the plantation and temperature regulation, I am planning to make two different areas: one for basking and the other for cooling down.

 

[jajeanpierre]

W Alaykom al Salam jajeanpierre
I'm from Jeddah, and yes drastic changes have happened since 2003. Fun fact: we have an aquarium now!

Alphys is staying inside. I'm still checking for live bugs in some non-pet stores, so I hope I'll find some soon. To be honest, I'd rather steer clear of breeding cockroaches. I'm OK with breeding any other kind of bug though.

As for the plantation and temperature regulation, I am planning to make two different areas: one for basking and the other for cooling down.

When I was in Jeddah, as a Western woman, I never wore an abaya. Have the ma'atawa put a stop to that? The old city of Jeddah was just so beautiful with the leaning coral block buildings. Riyadh was such a completely different place than Jeddah. Jeddah was just such a happier place. I have a lot of fond memories of my many years in KSA.

You could keep your roaches outside.

You might also see if you can't get things mailed to you from the US or Europe. If you could get silkworm eggs, you would have a really good food. You just want to get anything like that shipped now in the "cool" season. You definitely don't want to bring in anything that could be invasive, which is why I think silkworms might be a good thing.

 

[MissMaisie]

I would try and research websites that could ship bugs to you or eggs, maybe some sellers on eBay? Grasshoppers could be a good food source if you could breed them and they're not too big for her.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I went to your first thread and looked at your veiled. She is a wild caught, so will have all the problems of a wild caught. Can you get her stool to a vet to be looked at for parasites. I am sure she will have parasites and the stress of capture, etc., will mean they will have increased dramatically. Did you collect her yourself or buy her in a souk or a pet shop?

She will only want live food. In a pinch, you might try something like small fish such as guppies. They are a very common tropical fish. The biology professor you spoke to might be able to help you. Be careful of caterpillars as you don't know if they have poisonous or irritating spines.

Do not use Ivermectin or Albon to get rid of parasites. Both can kill chameleons.

 

[ragidi]

I went to your first thread and looked at your veiled. She is a wild caught, so will have all the problems of a wild caught. Can you get her stool to a vet to be looked at for parasites. I am sure she will have parasites and the stress of capture, etc., will mean they will have increased dramatically. Did you collect her yourself or buy her in a souk or a pet shop?

She will only want live food. In a pinch, you might try something like small fish such as guppies. They are a very common tropical fish. The biology professor you spoke to might be able to help you. Be careful of caterpillars as you don't know if they have poisonous or irritating spines.

Do not use Ivermectin or Albon to get rid of parasites. Both can kill chameleons.

I bought Alphys at a pet store in Riyadh. I fed her flies so far, but I didn't try fish. I called a local vet to see if they can treat chameleons should the need arise, and they said they can (I hope they really meant it though..)
Caterpillars are very hard to find these days, so I haven't considered them. Thanks for the warning anyways!

As for parasites, I'll take Alphys's poop to the vet as soon as possible.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I bought Alphys at a pet store in Riyadh. I fed her flies so far, but I didn't try fish. I called a local vet to see if they can treat chameleons should the need arise, and they said they can (I hope they really meant it though..)
Caterpillars are very hard to find these days, so I haven't considered them. Thanks for the warning anyways!

As for parasites, I'll take Alphys's poop to the vet as soon as possible.

Let her acclimate to captivity before you try to deal with parasites. She does have parasites now, but getting rid of them might be a lot worse for her than having the parasites. If you take a sample in and your vet wants to worm her, bring that information to us here before you worm her. Normally I would never question a vet, but, well, things are a little different in your neck of the woods. Some medications can easily kill your chameleon even though the literature says they are okay to use. Don't give her any medications without bouncing it off someone here and be very careful of whose advice you take. Albon and Ivermectin are drugs to never use. There are better drugs. Also, you never want to inject Baytril (enrofloxacin).

Give the Falcon Center in Riyadh a call. As far as calcium, you could take human grade plain calcium pills and grind them up. Or even cuttle bone from a pet shop (that will be found in the bird section). If you can grind that stuff up fine enough, you can at least get a little calcium in. Right now, I think your biggest problem is hydration and finding food.

Good luck.

 

[ragidi]

Let her acclimate to captivity before you try to deal with parasites. She does have parasites now, but getting rid of them might be a lot worse for her than having the parasites. If you take a sample in and your vet wants to worm her, bring that information to us here before you worm her. Normally I would never question a vet, but, well, things are a little different in your neck of the woods. Some medications can easily kill your chameleon even though the literature says they are okay to use. Don't give her any medications without bouncing it off someone here and be very careful of whose advice you take. Albon and Ivermectin are drugs to never use. There are better drugs. Also, you never want to inject Baytril (enrofloxacin).

Give the Falcon Center in Riyadh a call. As far as calcium, you could take human grade plain calcium pills and grind them up. Or even cuttle bone from a pet shop (that will be found in the bird section). If you can grind that stuff up fine enough, you can at least get a little calcium in. Right now, I think your biggest problem is hydration and finding food.

Good luck.

Of course, I'll be sure to check in here before I make any important decisions regarding Alphys's health. I gave the Falcon Center a call, but no answer. I assume they're closed (it's noon here), so I'm saving their number and trying later.

Are any human grade calcium pills ok? It should be pure calcium right? Also, what about the D3, how do I know it's not contained in it?

 

[jajeanpierre]

Of course, I'll be sure to check in here before I make any important decisions regarding Alphys's health. I gave the Falcon Center a call, but no answer. I assume they're closed (it's noon here), so I'm saving their number and trying later.

Are any human grade calcium pills ok? It should be pure calcium right? Also, what about the D3, how do I know it's not contained in it?

I would not use anything with D3 or other minerals added which a lot of the human calcium supplements have--it will be on the label. You want basically plain unflavored calcium pills--calcium carbonate. Nothing else in it, just calcium carbonate. The cheapest might be something like Tums for acid indigestion. Just look at the label. If in doubt, ask the pharmacist.

I might have given you an old phone number for the Falcon Center--I got it from a Google search.

 

[Trace]

In a pinch, Cuttlebone is an excellent source of calcium. Can you get pieces of that in the pet stores or markets there? It’s usually found in the bird section for budgies.

Over a catch bowl, simply scrape the bone with a file or knife, or buy two pieces and rub them together and the resulting powder is almost pure calcium. You can use that until you can get the finer grade calcium.