For everyone who KNOWS you can't keep chams in glass

[Miss Lily]

Quite a few of us in the UK use terrariums successfully. The most common cages on the market over here are the exo terra terrriums and a wooden cage with glass doors. Interestingly, when Lily was poorly and I posted the Ask For Help Form, nobody even referred to the fact that Lily was kept in a glass cage. I think that this was mainly due to the fact that she was a healthy cham and had been healthy her whole life until her illness and everyone knew that. I am sure that the cage would have been blamed by some people if Lily had been presenting with some kind of injury, or URI.

 

[TylerStewart]

The biggest difference, and the part that Chris isn't telling you, is that Chris goes in there each night between 7 and 9PM (which would explain why he is still single) and blows gently on the chams in these cages. He has found that just the right amount of carbon dioxide given to the plants just before sundown helps them release the right amount of oxygen for the chameleons to thrive, and get the fresh air they need. He did it both nights when I stayed at his place in Tampa. It was weird, but apparently it works.

 

[luevelvet]

Something about the above post confuses me?

 

[jojackson]

LOl, I think Somebody just wants to see how many people are gullible enough to go blowing on their chams at night!

That said, the carefully metered introduction of carbon dioxide into freshwater aquariums does wonders for the aquatic plants, Ive seen it done.

 

[luevelvet]

And marine corals as well!

Luis

 

[Pure]

That said, the carefully metered introduction of carbon dioxide into freshwater aquariums does wonders for the aquatic plants, Ive seen it done.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/xyshannen/3CO2.jpg

I've often wondered how well this may work on a terrarium that has the ability to retain some artificial CO2. Screen cages would be useless in this regard. I may eventually do some experiments to see. One has to be very careful when injecting CO2 into an enclosure, be it a fish tank or a viv. It's very very easy to kill with it.

 

[Chris Anderson]

However I have to disagree with you when you say that aquariums with only a screen lid are not good for chameleons due to airflow issues.

I guess what I was getting at is that Aquariums with screen lids are typically not going to get the level of airflow that a terrarium would get.

Chris, are your plants rooted into the soil, or are they in pots? I do mine in pots and they seem to work out ok, but maybe planting them directly into the soil has benefits?

My plants are rooted into the soil. I prefer this to submerging the pots as I think the plants do better being able to branch out and collect water from a wider area.

Chris is my hero. I wouldn't expect anything less from a guy whos grandfather basically built Anaheim, CA.

The biggest difference, and the part that Chris isn't telling you, is that Chris goes in there each night between 7 and 9PM (which would explain why he is still single) and blows gently on the chams in these cages. He has found that just the right amount of carbon dioxide given to the plants just before sundown helps them release the right amount of oxygen for the chameleons to thrive, and get the fresh air they need. He did it both nights when I stayed at his place in Tampa. It was weird, but apparently it works.

Haha, you're such an idiot. Any chance of the wife letting you come out to FL again any time soon? I heard she wore the pants when you guys were in Sacramento.

Chris

 

[TylerStewart]

Haha, you're such an idiot. Any chance of the wife letting you come out to FL again any time soon? I heard she wore the pants when you guys were in Sacramento.

Chris

My wife knows better than to tell me what to do. I made that point clear before I married her LOL. She did get into a little video at that show, though, for anyone that wants to see how lucky I am:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBZ9_OVMhI8.

She's towards the end, starting right at about 5:45 minutes into the video.

Nothing holding me back from going down there again, just looking for a way to justify it. I don't wanna go down to sit around. I heard Daytona was a bust, so my intention to do that show next year has kinda fizzled away.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Nice video, Tyler. It was great to see Sarah again, if only virtually.

 

[Carlton]

Thanks for the GREAT post and descriptions Chris!

Personally, I think one major cause of the glass tank misconception is various cham forums' attempts to avoid misleading newbies who are unable to filter out bad information from good. Those of us who have a lot of experience to draw on have kept chams in various enclosures including what is a variation on a glass tank. I know I have.

When a newbie asks me how to house their first cham, I am still likely to suggest a mostly screen cage depending on the species, their level of understanding, the live plants they provide, where they live and what their house climate is. If they have problems maintaining humidity the next suggestion I would make would be using a screen cage with adjustable plastic sheeting on back and sides. I don't have a lot of animals to house so this is still my favorite method for larger cages.

I do have one large (4'x3'x2') cage I designed plexiglas "storm windows" for. The cage is wooden framed in panels. Each panel is screened, but also has window screen clips that can hold a plexiglass sheet on the outside. This cage can function as a terrarium or a screen cage. I can leave the plexi panels on as many sides of the cage as the species, local weather or season dictates.

The problem still is, we know what to look for when judging how a cham is doing in a solid sided setup. We know the signs of stress, respiratory problems and how important air exchange can be. A newbie who's only kept a pet store cornsnake in a garage-sale fish tank won't. I'm always concerned that giving newbies too many rather complex options for cham housing and hoping that they learn the signs of health problems quickly enough will doom more animals. Maybe in these days of interactive forums and timely help this isn't as important as in the "old days" when keepers had to rely on pet shops or herp societies for husbandry information.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I do have one large (4'x3'x2') cage I designed plexiglas "storm windows" for. The cage is wooden framed in panels. Each panel is screened, but also has window screen clips that can hold a plexiglass sheet on the outside. This cage can function as a terrarium or a screen cage. I can leave the plexi panels on as many sides of the cage as the species, local weather or season dictates.

This sounds an excellent way to adjust to current need/conditions.
I like it.

 

[vetdebbie]

May I ask if you've tried rudis in exo terras?? No specific reason as mine are very happy intheir screen cages, just interested.

In the UK, I've seen some similar style glass terrariums for sale, ostentaciously designed for water dragons I believe, by a different manufacturer. Can't for the life of me remember the name. They have good height and width, but have always seemed to not have the depth for either a wd or a big cham as they are only about 18 inches deep. If not for that I would have looked into them more closely as they have a small glass baffle about 3 or 4 inches high just inside the door, underneath where the front vents are, which holds some interesting thoughts re water storage/drainage/humidity increasing. If I find it in my random googling, I'll post a link.

 

[Carlton]

This sounds an excellent way to adjust to current need/conditions.
I like it.

It worked very well for a veiled, a verrucosus, and a fischeri. I liked it because I wasn't limited to the typical smaller format glass tank. Basically I built a good solid framed screen cage and attached storm window plexiglass. It was an added cost however. Good quality heavy vinyl shower curtains cut to fit work too.

 

[dannigrrl]

I live in Calgary where it is always 0 - 10% humidity and I need a glass cage on 3 sides otherwise he'll never be able to have humidity.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Great thread! Plus thats an awesome reptile/chameleon room you have got Chris. The montane species are probably thanking you for the extra humidity, plus some air flow to not allow the air to go stagnet. I'm looking forward to seeing what you put together for a glass enclosure for your Parsons. There was a chameleon keeper out of Europe (may be a member to this forum) who had Parsons in a glass terrarium (3 sides glass, front, back and bottom and 3 sides screen, top and the sides similar to what yours looked like) his demensions were 4 foot tall by 4 foot long by 2 foot deep. He was expanding his reptile room and seemed like his Parsons were doing OK.

 

[nightcrawler]

So Ive been thinking about self constructing this, and my new question is this...
Would it be better off to have a smaller opening in the bottom of the cage or two small or medium sized openings?
Say you have the whole top screen, and all the sides plus bottom solid except for maybe a 4 inch part on the bottom on both sides that is basically a rectangle of screen. Would this allow more air to flow in because there is double the area for it to come in from or would it allow less because of the two sides? Would there be a difference in chimney effect because the larger openings compared to the smaller holes? Any input on this would be awesome, and sorry if im just talking nonsense but I find this interesting.

 

[Bange]

Reflections in the glass haven't been discussed much in this thread. This is something that I have been thinking about for some time. It was claimed in the beginning of the thread that this isn't a problem. But chameleons do respond to their reflection in a mirror right? I believe the image in a mirror must appear to be very real for a cham. So the question is how much reflections do you get in glass and how close to a real mirror can it get?

I have a theory that I would like to share...
The way I see it, the reflection in the glass is very dependent on the lightning conditions inside and outside of the terrarium. If you look out of a window in your house during the day when it's bright outside, you will probably not see any reflection at all. But if you do the same thing when it's very dark outside, it is almost impossible to see what's outside. All you will see is the reflection of yourself and the room that you're in, assuming that you have the lights on inside. I was thinking about this when I travelled by train a couple of weeks ago during the night. I was amazed by the reflection in the compartment windows!

So if there would be a problem it would most likely occur when the lights are on inside the terrarium and the rest of the room is dark. What do you think of this? I can see from the pictures by Chris that the room seems to be dark while the terrarium lights are on. So maybe the answer is right there - It's no problem! (?)

I'm new here and I don't have a cham myself, yet =)
I really enjoy this site, great inspiration!

 

[Courtney]

i had an exo terra vivarium...LOVED IT!!! Everything that chris said is true to a T. Besides the air flow vent and screen top there is always a. uncooked spaghetti noodle sized air slit around the door(s). To prevent reflection i put up a poster on the back nothing that looked like a fake landscape i find it a tease to the chams. have you ever seen a cham reach for a branch but its just a background. Also Chris maybe you can answer this....the foam like backgrounds that come with them....my crickets would go behind lay eggs and die and also eat the foam. i took it out thought it would have hurt my cham to diegest man made matereal. It took up alot of space also.. mine wasalmost 4'' at its thickest point. also for people with flexi vines its awesom you can instal snap lock suction cups that will stay put for a long time. if you put your vines hanging on the hooks just the right way they provide a plants natural movement when your chams weight is applied to it. that in its self amused my cham. the movement was slight he never swayed or got stressed from it. i think he felt he was going somewhere instead of being stuck in a stationary environment.!!!

 

[OntarioLizardman]

interesting thread. i like

 

[rnara002]

xxxxxxxxxx