Forbidden love

[MissSkittles]

Both of my girls are most definitely receptive again (not having laid eggs since being receptive months ago!). Grumpy is doing her usual up and down and Stella is doing her circular patrol.
Due to space, I have all 3 of my enclosures next to each other and views of each other blocked off. Well, I found quite a surprise this morning. Sneaky Stella.

I felt so bad when I blocked their views of each other with a cloth after this. ?

 

[PoseidonTheChameleon]

Awee

 

[Haley Hendrix]

Stella was saying “ You see nothing mom” ?.

 

[AmandaS]

Mean, mom! ?

 

[kinyonga]

Stella is so pretty in that photo!
They really can sense/feel another's presence IMHO.

 

[JoXie411]

Both of my girls are most definitely receptive again (not having laid eggs since being receptive months ago!). Grumpy is doing her usual up and down and Stella is doing her circular patrol.
Due to space, I have all 3 of my enclosures next to each other and views of each other blocked off. Well, I found quite a surprise this morning. Sneaky Stella.
View attachment 280368View attachment 280369
I felt so bad when I blocked their views of each other with a cloth after this. ?

Omg that’s Larry and Imelda all the time as well

 

[MissSkittles]

I figured they are able to sense the presence of each other thru vibration even though the enclosures aren’t touching. Also, when I take them out it’s unavoidable that they catch glimpses of each other. It was just so sweet that they were just looking at each other and Stella put on her finest colors for Hammlet. ...and I came along and ruined it for them.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

They really can sense/feel another's presence IMHO.

I was thinking pheromones(?) Even animals with poor sense of smell can usually detect their own species' pheromones, especially at such short range.

 

[Fchamel]

So beautiful and Adorable! ? ? ?

 

[Mrjamwin]

Sneaky and cute at the same time.

 

[jannb]

Do cute! Stella is do beautiful! ?

 

[kinyonga]

@Klyde O'Scope said..."thinking pheromones(?) Even animals with poor sense of smell can usually detect their own species' pheromones, especially at such short range"...
I've known about the vibrations for a long long time but always wondered about pheromones too but thought it might be unlikely because of the sense of smell. It would be interesting to know for sure.

 

[ChameleonTherapy]

You should rename them Thisbe and Pyramus

 

[MissSkittles]

I was thinking pheromones(?) Even animals with poor sense of smell can usually detect their own species' pheromones, especially at such short range.

I wondered that, but they don’t smell well. Something certainly made Stella tear up her coir panel at that spot.

 

[kinyonga]

I wondered that, but they don’t smell well. Something certainly made Stella tear up her coir panel at that spot.

I absolutely think she would have torn up to that spot for a good reason!

 

[Beman]

omg might be the cutest thing ever! Really makes you wonder what really is going on. Like do they have pheromones? I mean they must have ways to communicate that they are there to figure out how to pull it down to see one another.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

@Klyde O'Scope said..."thinking pheromones(?) Even animals with poor sense of smell can usually detect their own species' pheromones, especially at such short range"...
I've known about the vibrations for a long long time but always wondered about pheromones too but thought it might be unlikely because of the sense of smell. It would be interesting to know for sure.

I wondered that, but they don’t smell well. Something certainly made Stella tear up her coir panel at that spot.

If they can't smell them, why have pheromones at all, sexual or otherwise?

One post in the archives from 2011 claims:

There is no evidence that chameleons excrete any pheromones for sexual recognition. It has been speculated based on tongue tasting behavior of males and females when placed in new territories that males may rub their vent on branches to scent their territory, but this has never been definitively shown. There has never been any behaviors observed that are consistent with pheromone release for instant sex recognition, however.

I'm not aware of any studies with C. calyptratus, however sexual selection has been studied in F. labordi and F. verrucosus and a couple papers have been published on it by Kris Karsten, et al. They examined what morphological features in males resulted in the highest reproductive success (i.e. correlated morphology with the chance of a female letting the male mate with them) and came up with a few characters that seem to be indicative. Whether these traits are also tied to sex recognition or simply reproductive quality isn't clear.

Chris

HOWEVER, An article from 2019 citing NAVC Conference 2012 Small Animal says in part:

Other than for breeding purposes, it is usually best to house chameleons singly, with no visual contact between cages, and ideally in separate rooms as pheromone release can often be detected from other individuals.

I found these quotes via a hasty cursory search of google. I didn't search google scholar as I'm a bit ragged today trying to pull my enclosure together for the impending... ? So if anyone cares to pursue that avenue... ?

Offhand, I'd be reluctant to rule pheromones out without further evidence.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

BTW... When I first saw this thread title—for one split second—I just might have thought,
"What now, LGBTQ+ chameleons? (Not that there's anything WRONG with that... )"

I'm not the first to have wondered—check the archives! But chams don't seem to be on the list...

 

[kinyonga]

"It is a patch of sensory cells within the main nasal chamber that detects heavy moisture-borne odour particles."....
https://www.chameleons.info/l/chameleons-have-a-permanently-cleft-palate-a-myth-unleashed/

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

"It is a patch of sensory cells within the main nasal chamber that detects heavy moisture-borne odour particles."....
https://www.chameleons.info/l/chameleons-have-a-permanently-cleft-palate-a-myth-unleashed/

? Even before clicking the link I knew they were talking about Jacobson's Organ! ?
Nice art.