frost ate his first gecko!!

[eisentrauti]

great work guy ! would you breed a gecko, raise it from 2.5 cm to adult size and sell it for that money ? no ? nobody would do it
you just feed your chameleon a collection of reptile parasits. those "house geckos" were catched all over the world, treaten like the last s#*t and then sold. Often with no food in their stomach since months. Always in contact with douzens of others of those creatures.

If I would feed any reptiles to my chams I would take small P.vitticeps or Ch.calyptratus. Those are cheap and with guarantee CB.

 

[Billy Quan]

meh.

This seems excessively cruel to the "gecko". Some people feed pinkies also, which is fine and necessary for a snake. But is it necessary or even good for the chameleon? There are so may other things that a chameleon can and will eat, why risk impaction, or even an internal puncture from the bones of anoles/pinkies?


PS: PARASITES!

 

[eisentrauti]

It is definitly not necessary. The bones of those animals are healthy and they are very natural kind of food (geckos, not pinkies !)
But the reason why I would never feed any gecko or anole are in my post abouve. Nobody raise those animals and sell them for a few bucks

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Bay,

A few thoughts. First off, I would seek out WC anoles, geckos, etc. that you caught yourself before I would buy anything from a pet store, vendor, etc. I think you want as natural of food as possible, and fresh WC's are it. Most harmful parasite issues come from captive raised or housed animals, kept in poor conditions. Animals raised with such a small profit margin (I don't believe for a minute that the gecko was CB) do not get quality care most of the time, but rather minimal care.

As to the sense of doing it, here's a link:

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/chat-with-dr-gary-w-ferguson.html

and a quote from Dr. Gary Ferguson found at that link:

7. Are you familiar with the reason why they cannot convert beta-carotene into Vitamin A? Also, how is it in the wild, they satisfy their need of Retinol? As a chameleon keeper, this topic seems to be controversial among people. Is there a more thorough study that addresses this matter?
I don’t know why the carotene in carrots couldn’t be converted. It could be that other carotenes in the guts of wild plant-eating insects can be. It could also be why panthers sometimes occasionally eat lizards and nestling birds, which should be a good source of retinol. I think it is a good idea to feed panthers large pinkies or small lizards, such as anoles, occasionally, if they will eat them. There indeed needs to be more study on this subject.

We observe pardalis feeding on wild indo-pacific geckos and anoles here all the time. "Baaaad leeezard" .......

 

[jojothefirst]

This seems excessively cruel to the "gecko". Some people feed pinkies also, which is fine and necessary for a snake. But is it necessary or even good for the chameleon? There are so may other things that a chameleon can and will eat, why risk impaction, or even an internal puncture from the bones of anoles/pinkies?


PS: PARASITES!

+1. Seems abit sick 2 me..

 

[Fal]

I can see the point of variety, and I can't argue with a Doctor, but it freaks me out a bit since I've been interested in getting and raising a Gecko

However, that being said (although I have to admit I didn't 'laugh' at the video or find it pleasant), I guess there are people who could say the same about live feeders: Mice, Rats (make great pets), even crickets etc... there are people who keep such insects for pleasure. I do find it weird however (IMHO), the feeding of a lizard to another lizard (yes I know, it's a Cham and not another Gecko). It'd kind of be like buying a pit bull and then buying a lap dog to feed to it in a way. Although we will all see this differently, that's humans for you and why we are what we are I guess.

Hope the Cham is ok though and the vet check goes through ok as the Cham's only doing what he would in the wild.

ps: I'm even less impressed by the whole pinky mice feeding thing (when they are still alive). In fact, it's illegal in the UK (not sure about feeding lizards other lizards though). I just think that's cruel, since they are eaten alive, and slowly in most cases. Also, as a bearded dragon keeper, it annoys me how so many people load them on their beardies. It's so easy for the dragon to be injured by the live feeding, not to mention a possibility of impaction. But hery, again, that's just my oppinion. But that's what we come on here to give isn't it

 

[Bay687]

WELL THANKS FOR SAYING THAT.. I DEFINITLEY TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.. AND IF I NOTICE ANYTHING I RUSH HIM TO A VET... its just i thought it was best.... but in the mean time it was a good treat for frost.. he seem to really enjoy it.. plus ill be at the vet next week.. ill let him know to take a look

 

[Geckoxp]

I fed anoles to my beardie once a month as a treat and he loved every minute of one. This is life, nature...it should be used as a teaching tool...survival in a controlled environment. I think the problem here is that we as humans control this so we have emotional ties to what happens every day out of sight...now I haven't tried feeding my chams an anole but hey maybe one day I may try.

 

[Pure]

However, that being said (although I have to admit I didn't 'laugh' at the video or find it pleasant),

I think you missed the point of what was funny about that video. It had nothing to do with a lizard being eaten, that part wasn't funny, it was just natural. To find it funny would be sadistic. I think better of our fellow forum members. What was funny and sad at the same time was the child's reaction.

 

[Sang]

Hey bay, which petstore did you get those from"?

it honestly wouldn't suprise me if someone caught several dozen and sold them to the petstore for a few bucks as CB!. SO the only way to know for sure is to literally breed geckos yourself.

 

[Bay687]

i got them from the reptile store off of university and mcclintock.. your from the area so you might be familar.. i dont remember the name i just been going there for awhile

 

[jojackson]

It's so easy for the dragon to be injured by the live feeding

From live pink mice? I doubt it. Not much in the way of teeth present.

 

[eisentrauti]

Are are people arguing with "this is natural etc." and at the same point the majority of the keepers here feed their chameleons much too much food...

 

[jojackson]

I think the majority of reptile keepers everywhere feed them too much food.
I think people still expect reptile metabolism to be like their cat/dog etc.

 

[eisentrauti]

Yeah, but here are too many people just arguing " my cham lives since a year or so with this quantity of food" etc., and it looks fine
Many more play this fact down. And then everybody is curious und sad because the next thread about a death chameleon is started here... just pardalis and calyptratus seem to be able to live with the mass of food which is often mentioned here. But even those species could get older than two years ...

 

[jojackson]

Absolutely Ben, I tend to err on the conservative side in feeding any reptile species, their metabolism is designed for lean/opportunistic diet.
Only exception I make is for growing young/hatchlings with daily feeds but still less amounts.
Example of what you say is demonstrated by the majority of bearded dragons kept in the us. These are grown much more rapidly than here, young dragons are surprisingly large, but by contrast, Ive heard US keepers claim 12 yrs is long for vitticepts lifespan, but here I know many still breeding at this age, and freinds have vitticepts 17 and 18 yrs, still living.
This is because lizards are fed more sparingly here, and no rush to expediate growth to breeding size (smaller hobby here). I think fast growth by overfeeding leads to fat stored in organs and eventual failure, shortening the lifespan.
Snakes here unfortunately are tending to be treated this way, not many older pythons over 15 yrs or so seen these days.
Given pythons may live 30 years or more in captivity this is sad.

 

[codiwatkins]

Was this a captive bred gecko... or one you caught? There is a vid around somewhere of a panther enjoying an anole... I can't seem to find the thread though...

remember.... "That's a BAD Lizard!!!"lol

HAHA!!

I think your guy willbe just fine! My Panther ate a mid adult anole and he was great!!! Just check for poop to make sure he digested everything correctly!! It is so exciting to see them eat something so big isnt it!! Dont be surprised if he doesnt eat anything for the next few days since this is such a big meal for him and he is use to having small bugs!

 

[Bay687]

ya it was definitley exciting to me! I enjoyed every moment as much as he did! He was all about it, but I'll take a look at his poop and so on and make sure everything looks fine!

 

[Sang]

theres a pet store on mcclintock and university? were at LOL. i will have to check out there store today.


other then that just be cautious of petstores pets inc, AZ reptile are the only two id really buy feeders from. i know how/ and were they get/takecare of their feeders.

Bay, you won't know anything is wrong from just looking at his poop, you need to know how to run a float and fecal, also to know what kind of parasites your looking for, which there are HUNDREDS of different kinds , and alot look the same. occasionally worms are visible but thats about it.

 

[eisentrauti]

damn. what a bunch of ignorants. if you aren't a specialized reptile vet you won't see anything when you look at the "poop"
"....I enjoyed every moment as much as he did!...." are you normal

I have a new special diet, which helps anybody here to don't get too long living animals:

Monday: a pinkie or two
Tuesday: a few zoophobas or other worms
Wednesday: an anole or an CB house gecko
Thursday: some fat dubias, gutloaded with some stuff from McDonalds
Friday: silkworms
Saturday: Many crickets, as much as the chameleon will eat
Sunday: some Chicken McNuggets


(Dear mods, I hope this don't cause the next infraction ! )