Genuine Question About Cross Breeding

[Acottrelll]

I have decided to finally breed my 5 year old Male Ambilobe with my female Nosy Faly. I never intended to breed them, because when I first got my girl they told me it was a male. Obviously as time went on I realized she wasn’t. Their cages are next to each other and in the past few weeks I’ve noticed them checking each other out, my male rajah was going nuts with his colours and they seemed interested in one another. So I gave it a shot, put my girl in his cage and right away they went at it both receptive no problems at all.

I know cross breeding locales is a hot button issue and controversial. But I truly don’t understand why. Going into the wild, do chameleons not cross breed all the time? It’s not like they stick to their own locale mating in the wild? So why is it such an issue to cross breed them in captivity? I don’t know, I’ve always had this thought, maybe someone can clarify for me.

Regardless of all the crap I’m sure I’ll get from the purists, I’m excited. This is my first time breeding, but I’ve been keeping for about 7 years now.

 

[Fraservet]

I think generally the different locales are separated by geographical features that make cross breeding very rare as they don’t really come into contact with each other.

Personally I don’t see any problem with it, unless people represent them as something they aren’t.
Equally I think it’s important to keep pure lines going as well.

 

[nightanole]

https://www.madcham.de/en/lokalform-nosy-faly/

Now take into account is very hard to get fresh blood.

So we have to make due with the the captive breeders.

If we keep crossbreeding, you end up with " just a panther" and when picking out a hatching, you have no clue what the grey little snot will look like all grown up, even if you have pictures of the parents, since they will produce random mix offspring.

 

[Acottrelll]

https://www.madcham.de/en/lokalform-nosy-faly/

Now take into account is very hard to get fresh blood.

So we have to make due with the the captive breeders.

If we keep crossbreeding, you end up with " just a panther" and when picking out a hatching, you have no clue what the grey little snot will look like all grown up, even if you have pictures of the parents, since they will produce random mix offspring.

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t understand why some of the most popular breeders are doing this all the time for example Kammerflauge Creations or whatever they’re called and nobody bats and eye at it.

 

[Acottrelll]

I think generally the different locales are separated by geographical features that make cross breeding very rare as they don’t really come into contact with each other.

Personally I don’t see any problem with it, unless people represent them as something they aren’t.
Equally I think it’s important to keep pure lines going as well.

understand what you’re saying, I would never lie and when it is time to sell I will be honest with what they are

 

[Fraservet]

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t understand why some of the most popular breeders are doing this all the time for example Kammerflauge Creations or whatever they’re called and nobody bats and eye at it.

Probably the same reason everyone is breeding cockerpoos, labradoodles and all the rest of the designer breeds (that would have been called mongrels 10 years ago). Because it’s trendy and they can charge a fortune for them!

 

[Acottrelll]

Probably the same reason everyone is breeding cockerpoos, labradoodles and all the rest of the designer breeds (that would have been called mongrels 10 years ago). Because it’s trendy and they can charge a fortune for them!

That’s true, but I would assume most chameleon enthusiasts ( ones that are more advanced in their knowledge on locales and breeding and what not) would know that cross bred chameleons are worth less. I guess they make their money hyping these hybrids up and of course people who don’t know much about chameleons fall for it and will pay the outrageous price

 

[Acottrelll]

That’s true, but I would assume most chameleon enthusiasts ( ones that are more advanced in their knowledge on locales and breeding and what not) would know that cross bred chameleons are worth less. I guess they make their money hyping these hybrids up and of course people who don’t know much about chameleons fall for it and will pay the outrageous price

In your opinion, what do you think a reasonable price would be to sell mine for?

 

[Andy1987]

That’s true, but I would assume most chameleon enthusiasts ( ones that are more advanced in their knowledge on locales and breeding and what not) would know that cross bred chameleons are worth less. I guess they make their money hyping these hybrids up and of course people who don’t know much about chameleons fall for it and will pay the outrageous price

I was going to say if your trying to breed to create the perfect animal or most colourful you’d probably be doing it for the wrong reason especially if you’d be trying to jump up price and do it for profit. I think the breeding of chameleons is the totally different to any other animal, if you compare to ball pythons or even some dog breeds the more exotic the colours the better I’m most cases where as chameleons the purer the line the better

that’s said if it happens there’s no issue with it it and it wouldn’t stop me buying one as long as the breeders were upfront etc and did it for the love of the animal rather than the love of the money

 

[Acottrelll]

I was going to say if your trying to breed to create the perfect animal or most colourful you’d probably be doing it for the wrong reason especially if you’d be trying to jump up price and do it for profit. I think the breeding of chameleons is the totally different to any other animal, if you compare to ball pythons or even some dog breeds the more exotic the colours the better I’m most cases where as chameleons the purer the line the better

that’s said if it happens there’s no issue with it it and it wouldn’t stop me buying one as long as the breeders were upfront etc and did it for the love of the animal rather than the love of the money

like I said I honestly did not ever have the intention of breeding, I thought I had two males but turned out I got a female. I honestly let it happen because I saw how excited my boy was and let’s be honest I mean chameleons lives basically ( like all animals pretty much) revolve around eating sleeping and mating. I’m not looking for any type of crazy colours or to make a crap ton of money I just obviously can’t have 10-15 babies around lol. I’m just genuinely curious as to how they will turn out

 

[Andy1987]

like I said I honestly did not ever have the intention of breeding, I thought I had two males but turned out I got a female. I honestly let it happen because I saw how excited my boy was and let’s be honest I mean chameleons lives basically ( like all animals pretty much) revolve around eating sleeping and mating. I’m not looking for any type of crazy colours or to make a crap ton of money I just obviously can’t have 10-15 babies around lol. I’m just genuinely curious as to how they will turn out

Yeah I get it and agree, I’ve got a nosy faly male and when he’s old enough I’ve already thought that he would go well to an Ambanja female, as if he curious to see what would be produced, just couldn’t over populate the market with hybrids more for my own personal interest, that said I was reading somewhere that 75% of so called ambilobes in the market are a hybrid mix down to them just being sold as ambilobes and not actually having the correct advertised pairings so people just took them as ambilobes

 

[Beman]

Places like Kammerflage have been breeding for many many years... They have the reputation to back up what they sell which is why they can charge the prices they do. They also are able to tell you the linage of the line even with the cross locals.

People buy them because of the specialty colors you see in the crosses. There is one breeder that breeds for a blue/purple color. They charge a lot because they have something people want.

Light Night said.... The issue is not the cross the issue is getting new wild caughts from Madagascar. So your diluting the blood lines that we have in captivity. Eventually having a pure local will be rare and more expensive.

Then there is the issue of unethical people that sell crosses but say they are pure. Or breed two and have no idea of the actual linage because they bought from breeders that did not keep records or share the info. So eventually the line is completely diluted and basically a Mutt of multiple locals.

Since your brand new and do not have the reputation to back up prices... So your looking at getting 200-300 per if your lucky.

How many eggs did your female lay in her last clutch? You are aware that 1 mating can give you multiple clutches of fertilized eggs right? That the female can store sperm for up to a year.

 

[ERKleRose]

It’s not like they stick to their own locale mating in the wild?

They do, especially since some locales are on islands, like @nightanole posted.

 

[Acottrelll]

Places like Kammerflage have been breeding for many many years... They have the reputation to back up what they sell which is why they can charge the prices they do. They also are able to tell you the linage of the line even with the cross locals.

People buy them because of the specialty colors you see in the crosses. There is one breeder that breeds for a blue/purple color. They charge a lot because they have something people want.

Light Night said.... The issue is not the cross the issue is getting new wild caughts from Madagascar. So your diluting the blood lines that we have in captivity. Eventually having a pure local will be rare and more expensive.

Then there is the issue of unethical people that sell crosses but say they are pure. Or breed two and have no idea of the actual linage because they bought from breeders that did not keep records or share the info. So eventually the line is completely diluted and basically a Mutt of multiple locals.

Since your brand new and do not have the reputation to back up prices... So your looking at getting 200-300 per if your lucky.

How many eggs did your female lay in her last clutch? You are aware that 1 mating can give you multiple clutches of fertilized eggs right? That the female can store sperm for up to a year.

She actually hasn’t laid a clutch yet. I’ve been doing research on the whole process and set ups for months ( this has been in my head months of debating on doing this ) but no I did not know that. That’s why I come here to
Learn more and continue to do my research.

I figured around that price. I want to be honest and fair and I would never lie or try and screw people by putting them at a crazy price. Depending on how this all
Pans out, I may or may not ever breed again. If it works out well for me, I will be breeding pure locales next time.

 

[Acottrelll]

She actually hasn’t laid a clutch yet. I’ve been doing research on the whole process and set ups for months ( this has been in my head months of debating on doing this ) but no I did not know that. That’s why I come here to
Learn more and continue to do my research.

I figured around that price. I want to be honest and fair and I would never lie or try and screw people by putting them at a crazy price. Depending on how this all
Pans out, I may or may not ever breed again. If it works out well for me, I will be breeding pure locales next time.

Also I have the breeders info and all the info on my Male, my female was purchased from a reptile geared pet store and I was told she was second generation wild caught .. she was hard to tame but I’ve gotten her to a point where she somewhat trusts me lol

 

[Acottrelll]

By the way I’d like to thank everyone who is actually providing educational info, I really appreciate it. Some people can be so mean when it comes to this stuff. I want the best for my chams and I’m always trying to learn more.

 

[Andy1987]

By the way I’d like to thank everyone who is actually providing educational info, I really appreciate it. Some people can be so mean when it comes to this stuff. I want the best for my chams and I’m always trying to learn more.

Yeah some people can be abit OTT, at the end of the day we all want the best for our reptiles and is like to think we’d all be like minded individuals. I dreaded posting a pic of my bio active setup as I knew people were going to rip into it left right and centre and they can’t accept that that is what works best for me in the climate and area of the world I live in

also go for it with your breeding, your right to be using it as an educational purpose

 

[Acottrelll]

Yeah some people can be abit OTT, at the end of the day we all want the best for our reptiles and is like to think we’d all be like minded individuals. I dreaded posting a pic of my bio active setup as I knew people were going to rip into it left right and centre and they can’t accept that that is what works best for me in the climate and area of the world I live in

also go for it with your breeding, your right to be using it as an educational purpose

Thanks I’m excited. Plus watching everything go down was so amazing and fascinating to me. It amazes me how large the males are compared to the females when it’s put in perspective like this lol

 

[Andy1987]

Thanks I’m excited. Plus watching everything go down was so amazing and fascinating to me. It amazes me how large the males are compared to the females when it’s put in perspective like this lol

Yeah he’s stunning and it is interesting to see what can be produced, that’s our little guy , looking forward to seeing how he turns out

 

[Acottrelll]

Yeah he’s stunning and it is interesting to see what can be produced, that’s our little guy , looking forward to seeing how he turns out

Wow super interesting colours already. I would be excited too !