Having Problems... Getting Very Upset!

[Jonahs Dad]

Having Problems... Getting Very Upset! (Lunch Pics, He Pooped!)

Hey guys! I am new to the chameleon world. It has been a life long dream to try and raise one of these. About 2 months ago my 11 year old son started gaining interest in them. We have a huge hermit crab terrarium so I am kinda use to dealing with humility, temperature, and lighting. This is a whole new ball game though.

We finally bought a juvie male, from Petco. I checked him out there for about a month and we finally pulled the trigger. Their cage has substrate in them, and there temp./hum. seemed a little off. The guy there was very knowledgeable, and has chams himself. He was eating well there, but now at home is it not eating, and using the bathroom. Is he eating the crickets I let in the cage? is his poop somewhere on the plants? I need your help guys. I am very upset and feel as if I'm failing this little guy. I don't want to do anything to hurt him.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - veiled, male, ?, 3 days
Handling - just when he was brought home
Feeding - calcium dusted medium sized crickets (gutloaded with spinach, garlic onion, squash, apple). I see some ficus leaves eaten.
Supplements - TetraFauna Reptocal Reptile Supplement
Watering - dripper, manual misting
Fecal Description - one so far, and it seems normal
History - n/a

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 18"x18"x36" mesh cage
Lighting - 60 watt reveal bulb for basking. was using a 75 watt Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamps, but it was way too hot. Zilla Slimline Tropical 25 UVB T8 Fluorescent Fixture
Temperature - Top-82 (this morning), spiked to 95 yesterday(see above). Bottom-72 (this morning)
Humidity - Top- 46% (this morning). Bottom-67% (this morning)
Plants - real ficus and a real dracaena massangeana (corn plant)
Placement - north facing wall second floor, ceiling fan on low, vent on other side of the room, no traffic, 24" from floor.
Location - southern US

I have some poor quality pictures. I will try and post more if you need some.

Thanks guys. I hope I am over reacting. It is very important to me to treat this animal properly, and I will do whatever you guys think. I've read through some of the other threads, but I would like some advice/reassurance from you guys.

Jason

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

Sometimes it takes several weeks for them to settle in. Can you get a better picture of your chameleon? From that pic it looks like he may have MBD.

 

[onelove618]

I am having the same problem. I've had mine for 3 days and he has only eaten 2 crickets

 

[Thegreatfonz]

There are some things wrong with your husbandry. Your supplementation should include three specific dusts: a calcium with d3, a calcium without d3 and a reptile vitamin.You should be using the calcium without d3 at every feeding and only use the d3 and herptivite 2x a month. Also the spike at 95F is high for a juve veiled. I'd say 88F should be your peak basking temperature.
We'll need better pictures of your chameleon but there is swelling in the hind limbs and abdomen.

 

[Jonahs Dad]

Sometimes it takes several weeks for them to settle in. Can you get a better picture of your chameleon? From that pic it looks like he may have MBD.

Would he have that at such a young age? Should I bring him back? Brink him to the vet?

 

[Jonahs Dad]

There are some things wrong with your husbandry. Your supplementation should include three specific dusts: a calcium with d3, a calcium without d3 and a reptile vitamin.You should be using the calcium without d3 at every feeding and only use the d3 and herptivite 2x a month. Also the spike at 95F is high for a juve veiled. I'd say 88F should be your peak basking temperature.
We'll need better pictures of your chameleon but there is swelling in the hind limbs and abdomen.

I have the other (2). I was just letting you know what he has received so far. I will add it to the list.

I know the peak was bad. I'm not happy with that. Will that hurt him that fast?

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

See if you can posts some better pictures of him and others will weigh in. Sometimes they can have MBD from being at the pet stores and not having proper lighting and supplementation.

 

[Jonahs Dad]

I will go home at lunch and try to get a better picture of him.

For having him for (3) days I'm attached to him. I will do what I need.

 

[Jonahs Dad]

See if you can posts some better pictures of him and others will weigh in. Sometimes they can have MBD from being at the pet stores and not having proper lighting and supplementation.

Is it something I did?

I read about MBD. I don't know what to do... This suck!

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

No it's a gradual process and cannot happen in 3 days

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

I didn't say he had it, just that his forelimbs looked a bit crooked. It could be the pic tho

 

[Jonahs Dad]

No it's a gradual process and cannot happen in 3 days

"IF" he does have MBD should try and treat him, with being a novice? I hope he is just not photogenic! I know that the pet store dusts the crickets.

I will bring him to the vet if you guys think I should. If I return him to the pet store we all know what him fate is.

I will post more pics in about 2 hours.

 

[Jonahs Dad]

I didn't say he had it, just that his forelimbs looked a bit crooked. It could be the pic tho

I hear ya... I'm just freaking out!

 

[Sundragon]

This is some advise PsycoBunny (a senior member) gave me that I think applies to you situation. This should help with the MBD along with the supplement info you have already received from the previous posts.

Cute, is this one of Jann's babies?

I would add some branches, going horizontal, about 10'' below the lamp. Take some temp readings with a digital thermometer with a probe, and monitor the temp at the basking spot for a few hours.
Temps can fluctuate, and you don't want him to be able to get to close to the hot lamp.

Little ones like to climb around upside down on the top, so keep an eye on him so he dosent get directly under the lamp and cause a burn.

I use branches from a back yard tree, cut to size, and stuck up with push pins.

Do you have a Solarmeter?

Those types of UVB bulbs provide very little %UVB at any distance above 4 inches. Unless it's a high out bulb (highly recommended) the screen filters out a good bit of the UVB.

A good investment would be a high output 6% T5 Arcadia tube bulb and fixture.
They are MUCH brighter then any standard t8, and this gives you much better coverage and depth.

I use my Solarmeter to measure the distance I need to put my UVB basking branch.
I switched from the 6% to the 12% because I was getting low % UVB reading using the 6% tubes.

So I am using 12% HO and a distance of 12'' and get readings of 5 and 6%.

If possible, try to get yourself a Solarmeter, it really takes the 'guess work' out of proper set up

 

[Jonahs Dad]

My wife took this yesterday...

I'll post more at lunch.

 

[Jonahs Dad]

This is some advise PsycoBunny (a senior member) gave me that I think applies to you situation. This should help with the MBD along with the supplement info you have already received from the previous posts.

So i am using the wrong UVB bulb? He has about (10) branches to use, with the addition to his plants. His basking area is 8" from the top. I have an electronic thermometer/hygrometer. Same ones I use for our hermit crabs. They are accurate. I will look into the solarmeter.

I told my wife when we bought him that we were doing it right and not putting a living creature in danger.

 

[laurie]

So i am using the wrong UVB bulb? He has about (10) branches to use, with the addition to his plants. His basking area is 8" from the top. I have an electronic thermometer/hygrometer. Same ones I use for our hermit crabs. They are accurate. I will look into the solarmeter.

I told my wife when we bought him that we were doing it right and not putting a living creature in danger.

It is ok Dad. First relax. It is a lot easier to fix problems, if you just look at them as a learning curve. I used the same UVB light you have for years. You just need to change it every 6 months. I did not have a solar meter for my first 7 or 8 years of keeping chams. There are tons of things you can change. Most of them will have very little impact.

Now the questions. You said you watched him at petsmart, do you know if he had UVB lighting? Was he misted or did he just have a bowl of water? What was the substrate in his cage while at petsmart? The swelling you see could be from ingesting substrate. The possibility of MBD is very concerning. I feel he could have that problem. Usually petsmart have a vet program if there is a problem. They use a vet who may or may not have chameleon knowledge. My first step would be to call petsmart and tell them your cham has a problem, and could they arrange for him to see a vet - they also pay for this.

After you see their vet we will talk about what he did or did not see. Then you will know what you are looking at a little better. At that point you need need to decide what comes next based on what the vet had to say. I will give you a list of very specific questions to ask the vet so you have some idea of what their level of knowledge about chams is.

Let me know if this will help and I will pm you a few questions. Also what part of the country are you in? We have some wonderful chameleon vets located all over the US. That may be something you will need.

 

[Jonahs Dad]

It is ok Dad. First relax. It is a lot easier to fix problems, if you just look at them as a learning curve. I used the same UVB light you have for years. You just need to change it every 6 months. I did not have a solar meter for my first 7 or 8 years of keeping chams. There are tons of things you can change. Most of them will have very little impact.

Now the questions. You said you watched him at petsmart, do you know if he had UVB lighting? Was he misted or did he just have a bowl of water? What was the substrate in his cage while at petsmart? The swelling you see could be from ingesting substrate. The possibility of MBD is very concerning. I feel he could have that problem. Usually petsmart have a vet program if there is a problem. They use a vet who may or may not have chameleon knowledge. My first step would be to call petsmart and tell them your cham has a problem, and could they arrange for him to see a vet - they also pay for this.

After you see their vet we will talk about what he did or did not see. Then you will know what you are looking at a little better. At that point you need need to decide what comes next based on what the vet had to say. I will give you a list of very specific questions to ask the vet so you have some idea of what their level of knowledge about chams is.

Let me know if this will help and I will pm you a few questions. Also what part of the country are you in? We have some wonderful chameleon vets located all over the US. That may be something you will need.

Poor thing. I didn't want him to be an experiment. I feel bad... PM me the questions. Thanks!

Petco has substrate, water bowl, dripper, manually misted. They did have both lighting, if they keep them up-to-date... who knows. I told them it was wrong, but they didn't really respond. I feel like I know more about them just from my research over the month up to getting him.

I live in South Louisiana.

 

[Jonahs Dad]

He was pissy, as you can tell. He was coming from the bottom of the cage when I got home. His poop is fresh. Does it look ok? I still can't get a good shot. I will try again this afternoon. I took some better pictures of his legs and stomach. He is pushing it against the cage, in turn, making it fatter... I hope.

Also I attached all his supplements. The last one "Omega One" I give to the crickets as part of their gutloading. The cham guy at Petco says his "breeder friend" uses it, it helps with there coloring. Is that true?

Thanks guys!

 

[christineacero]

I can relate to how you're feeling right now as far as the panic. If it's any consolation, nothing here is your fault! You haven't had the little guy long enough to claim any responsibility for any issues he may have.

The best part of this whole situation is that he's in the hands of someone who is responsible and wants the best for him. His fate would've been much worse if he stayed in the care of the pet store, or went to someone who didn't know enough (or care) about his health or well being. You're doing the right thing here, dad. Try not to beat yourself up about this too much! He will make a recovery with proper care from now on!

This is all too common. I'm a firm believer that pet stores should not be allowed to sell chameleons because the staff is not educated in proper husbandry. This just furthers my beliefs. A vet visit is probably in order, and he, along with all of us here, will be able to steer you in the right direction! He is not an "experiment," we all learn as we go when we first get into keeping chameleons! You're doing just fine!