Hawaii Jackson's to Canada??

[Chris Anderson]

Don't ask don't tell that's how I brought my carpet cham from las vegas to chicago in my carry on bag

Except you didn't violate international laws protecting endangered species taking them from Las Vegas to Chicago. All that would have happened if you got caught was you might have been kicked off the flight. In this case, recommending that avenue violates international law and you'd be looking at prison and heavy fines.

Chris

 

[Syn]

Attempting to ship them UPS is completely illegal for international transport of a CITES species!

Chris

I keep forgetting we are talking US to Canada - thanks for bringing that up.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

I know of an individual in Canada, that got caught trying to drive Schedule 1 snakes across the border.

He was severely fined, had all his reptiles at home confiscated and narrowly escaped jail time. He now has a criminal record that will exclude him from getting visitation visas to the U.S. and other countries.

He is also virtually shunned by a large part of the Canadian reptile community.

It isn't worth the risk and holds all sorts of ethical implications.

 

[Montium]

Aloha,
Feel free to come and observe our beautiful Jackson's in the wild but please keep them in the wild. We see them often on our hikes and enjoy watching them and sometimes let them climb up our arm. If you want one for a pet buy one from a reputable dealer who only has captive bred. Here is some factual info:

Any person wanting to export a chameleon from Hawaii must obtain an export permit from the Division of Forestry and Wildlife office on the island of Oahu only. The office is located at 1151 Punchbowl St., Rm. 325, Honolulu, Hawaii 96813 (808) 587-0166. We will need your photo identification card. Whether you catch it yourself or purchase it you still need an export permit. The maximum number you can export is four, and you may only do so one time. You may not export chameleons for commercial purposes.

Jackson’s Chameleons are an endangered species in their native range. Therefore, to export a chameleon to another country, you must also obtain a Cites permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Call (808) 861-8525.

Other important information you should know:
1. Before obtaining a chameleon to export, we recommend you check with your airline to see if it will accept it on their aircraft.
2. Chameleons may not be taken from island to island in Hawaii.

More information:
Hawaii does not allow Chameleons to leave the state except as hand carried animals. It is illegal to mail them.

It is important for pet fanciers to understand that chameleons, as an alien species that is not native to Hawaii, are not welcome in Hawai‘i.

Chameleons themselves prey on insects and have shown the ability to spread widely into forest areas where they are yet another predator on Hawai‘i's native insects. Each species of animal that may be accidentally or intentionally introduced into the Hawaiian forest also increases the potential prey base for Brown Tree Snakes and other snakes, which increases the likelihood of these alien species successfully establishing populations. Illegal chameleon exporting is still occurring. Collectors trespass and damage private property in addition to keeping the animals they catch in large numbers in residential areas, potentially exposing themselves and their neighbors to salmonella.

Why doesn’t the state encourage people to catch and export the animals we don't want? Because when there is a potential profit to be made these individuals have moved Jackson's Chameleons and other species around the islands to "ranch" them in wilderness areas. Because the amount of captures does not really seem to significantly reduce the population of chameleons and encourages collectors to spread them to new areas, the State of Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources instituted the policy of making commercial export illegal.

For unusual and illegal animals where the priority is capturing the animal as quickly as possible call the Department of Agriculture pest hot line at 586-7378.

For information about specific statutes regarding injurious alien species, or to talk with a taxonomist about reporting a new species in their area call the State Invasive Species Coordinator at 587-0164.



Mahalo,
Beth

LMAO yet Hawaii lets in red eared turtles that might be just about the most voracious turtle out there. They have a very disconnected program at the Dept. of Ag. for the most part they are clueless as to why some things can be brought in and why others can't. It's as if somebody bough a dart board with reptile photos on it and chose to ban whatever they hit. How do I know, I've been there and gone through the list with them or at least the section of the list with reptiles and birds on it.

 

[Montium]

Oh and you stand a better chance of getting salmonella from eggs than you do Jacksons

 

[Chris Anderson]

Aloha,
Feel free to come and observe our beautiful Jackson's in the wild but please keep them in the wild. We see them often on our hikes and enjoy watching them and sometimes let them climb up our arm. If you want one for a pet buy one from a reputable dealer who only has captive bred. Here is some factual info:

Any person wanting to export a chameleon from Hawaii must obtain an export permit from the Division of Forestry and Wildlife office on the island of Oahu only. The office is located at 1151 Punchbowl St., Rm. 325, Honolulu, Hawaii 96813 (808) 587-0166. We will need your photo identification card. Whether you catch it yourself or purchase it you still need an export permit. The maximum number you can export is four, and you may only do so one time. You may not export chameleons for commercial purposes.

Jackson’s Chameleons are an endangered species in their native range. Therefore, to export a chameleon to another country, you must also obtain a Cites permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Call (808) 861-8525.

Other important information you should know:
1. Before obtaining a chameleon to export, we recommend you check with your airline to see if it will accept it on their aircraft.
2. Chameleons may not be taken from island to island in Hawaii.

More information:
Hawaii does not allow Chameleons to leave the state except as hand carried animals. It is illegal to mail them.

It is important for pet fanciers to understand that chameleons, as an alien species that is not native to Hawaii, are not welcome in Hawai‘i.

Chameleons themselves prey on insects and have shown the ability to spread widely into forest areas where they are yet another predator on Hawai‘i's native insects. Each species of animal that may be accidentally or intentionally introduced into the Hawaiian forest also increases the potential prey base for Brown Tree Snakes and other snakes, which increases the likelihood of these alien species successfully establishing populations. Illegal chameleon exporting is still occurring. Collectors trespass and damage private property in addition to keeping the animals they catch in large numbers in residential areas, potentially exposing themselves and their neighbors to salmonella.

Why doesn’t the state encourage people to catch and export the animals we don't want? Because when there is a potential profit to be made these individuals have moved Jackson's Chameleons and other species around the islands to "ranch" them in wilderness areas. Because the amount of captures does not really seem to significantly reduce the population of chameleons and encourages collectors to spread them to new areas, the State of Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources instituted the policy of making commercial export illegal.

For unusual and illegal animals where the priority is capturing the animal as quickly as possible call the Department of Agriculture pest hot line at 586-7378.

For information about specific statutes regarding injurious alien species, or to talk with a taxonomist about reporting a new species in their area call the State Invasive Species Coordinator at 587-0164.



Mahalo,
Beth

Beth,

It is a violation of copyright and forum policy to post material from another source in such a way that suggests it is your own (https://www.chameleonforums.com/copyright-36782/). Write up with your own information or just provide a link, don't steal it from others who worked hard to produce it. In case anyone would like to see the actual source of Beth's post, here it is: http://hawaiideptland.custhelp.com/...?p_faqid=244&p_created=1024693793&p_topview=1

Chris

 

[davidsbaby]

Thank you Chris ,that was my mistake I was trying to get the material and the link posted. Thank you for making the correction.
Beth

 

[aman3066]

Don't ask don't tell that's how I brought my carpet cham from las vegas to chicago in my carry on bag

The local kids can be a big help pointing you in the right direction to locating them, most of the kids have them in there back yards and will be more than willing to sell you one. Hawaii takes exporting pretty serious, so I would just leave them there. Enjoy your vaction and save yourself the headache. Have you ever seen Locked Up Abroad? LOL

FYI don't take the sand either.

 

[Elizadolots]

last i heard they still wont ship live animals, my parents lived on oahu and the permit was no prob prob was gettin em off the island my dad worked for an airline so trip was free but they were an airline that wouldnt let them on didnt matter what paperwork you had...

UPS ships live animals. Chameleons are on the "accepted" list. They simply require that there be "next day" shipment. Some years ago, Next Day didn't happen with Hawaii....all express shipping times were doubled, but now, they do next day to and from many cities in Hawaii.

Don't ask don't tell that's how I brought my carpet cham from las vegas to chicago in my carry on bag

lol....

Attempting to ship them UPS is completely illegal for international transport of a CITES species!

Chris

Why? If it's legal to export the animal from Hawaii and legal to import the animal to Canada, why would it be illegal for UPS to be the shipper? I understand that there would be paperwork involved. Canada has no restrictions on importation of chameleons other than "correct paperwork".

 

[kinyonga]

Scully said..."I bring in turtles that absoultly need help and I go to ask questions and people nail me for bringing them in"...bringing local species into your care to help or importing species to help and release in an area that they didn't originate from?

 

[sarroca808]

i am a native hawaiian and this is greatly frowned apon just dont let any locals know your taking it back. whats in hawaii belongs in hawaii havent you heard stories of people taking rocks. its basically the same thing braddah

 

[xanthoman]

again with the shipping

once again, the animals cannot be shipped, if you read the previous info from the hawaii dept of land website, it clearly states "Hawaii does not allow Chameleons to leave the state except as hand carried animals. It is illegal to mail them." not to mention the whole cites appendix II thing (minor detail) . jmo

 

[sarroca808]

why dont you buy a captive bred one? sea shells are also good things to take from hawaii. or are you like every tourist thinking its your vacation so why not. ma'lma da aina

 

[Seeco]

Chameleons are just kook tourist reptiles messing up your island. They don't belong there. They escaped and they are out of control. Taking some and putting them in cages is a good thing. What everyone in Hawaii should really do is start eating them.

 

[robmd1]

eliza maybe things have changed with ups recently but i tried and it was a big no no so i think you maybe wrong. again unless this is new..

 

[xanthoman]

i agree, even if you could, why would you want to? for the cost of getting a wild one to canada (lets assume for a minute that you could get a xanth from hawaii to canada for say $100) then you would still need to spend another $80 on a vet visit, another $40 on a fecal, another $40 on treatment, in all probability a follow-up visit, (another$80), a second fecal to verify treatment was successful (another $40) thats $300 just to get one there checked out and settled in. plus you are taking a perfectly happy cham that is used to being free, yanking him out of his only known enviroment, which is not the same as a one that was born and raised in captivity. jmo

 

[Cainschams]

Why? If it's legal to export the animal from Hawaii and legal to import the animal to Canada, why would it be illegal for UPS to be the shipper? I understand that there would be paperwork involved. Canada has no restrictions on importation of chameleons other than "correct paperwork".

Thats pretty simple. UPS ships door to door/UPS port to UPS port. Major airports are where customs and wildlife services inspect packages and paperwork not at UPS hubs.

Since you obviously didnt read the post Chris made, here it is again.

"Keep in mind that you will be taking a CITES Appendix II species across international lines so you will need to get CITES documents and have them inspected both in the US and upon arrival in Canada. You should contact the US Fish and Wildlife Service department in Hawaii AND the Division of Forestry and Wildlife for Hawaii's Department of Land and Natural Resources because you will have to have permits from both.

Attempting to ship them UPS is completely illegal for international transport of a CITES species!

Chris"


Sarroca said "i am a native hawaiian and this is greatly frowned apon just dont let any locals know your taking it back. whats in hawaii belongs in hawaii havent you heard stories of people taking rocks. its basically the same thing braddah"

Exactly!!! That is why as much as all of us love chams..............they are an invasive species to the islands!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sure Hawaii would love to rid all of them from the islands to protect the native species and the way evolution has occured naturally on the islands for many of years before man started to introduce other species of plants and animals to the islands!

JFC!!! I think that not many of us can actually tell Brock the legal way to get them from the islands to Canada. This is why he needs to contact his and the US's authorities to find out the legal way to get them into his country in this type of situation. As Chris stated, again, he needs to contact certain authorities to find how he can do this. Sorry, Brock, but not many of us, even importers who do import to the states, can tell you the exact way to go about this. Contact the main wildlife office in your country and start asking questions. Unfortunately non of us have done this before......its up to you.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Why? If it's legal to export the animal from Hawaii and legal to import the animal to Canada, why would it be illegal for UPS to be the shipper? I understand that there would be paperwork involved. Canada has no restrictions on importation of chameleons other than "correct paperwork".

It is illegal to ship CITES species internationally by UPS because they need to be inspected by US FWS upon export and by Canadian officials upon arrival. This means you have to use air freight, not a door-to-door service. Further, there are only certain airports in the US with FWS officers to do the inspections so not even any airport will qualify.

Additionally, Hawaiian regulations state that in order to receive a permit to collect them and bring them back to the mainland US with you, you must use animal cargo on the plane you are flying back on. You can't legally use UPS to bring them back from Hawaii even when you're not traveling internationally because you would be violating Hawaiian regulations.

Chris

 

[bifidus]

Which international laws... were violated by transport inside borders of one country? If it was legal in Las Vegas it will be legal in Chicago as well.

Internal rules of airlines about transport animals that another thing. But international law - I am curious hear which one.

Except you didn't violate international laws protecting endangered species taking them from Las Vegas to Chicago.

Chris

 

[Chris Anderson]

Which international laws... were violated by transport inside borders of one country? If it was legal in Las Vegas it will be legal in Chicago as well.

Internal rules of airlines about transport animals that another thing. But international law - I am curious hear which one.

Except you didn't violate international laws protecting endangered species taking them from Las Vegas to Chicago.

Chris

You misunderstood my post. I said that recommending transporting them in their bag was bad advice because traveling between Las Vegas and Chicago didn't (did not) violate any international laws but transporting a chameleon from Hawaii to Canada in their bag would violate international law. By crossing an international boarder (i.e. from Hawaii/the US to Vancouver/Canada) without CITES documents and the proper inspection, you would have violated CITES.

Chris