Health check: wet poop, orange urates, and dull skin on head

[Charms]

Hi everyone, my 5-month-old male veiled is looking a bit discolored, and his urates are orange -- but his poops are still super wet and slimy. I wanted to ask for a health check.

This little dude is 16.1g, up from 12.4g exactly one month ago.
He eats crickets (confirmed), dubias and wax worms (not confirmed; never seen him actually go for them). Supplement info included below.
He will not eat out of a feeder cup or a shooting gallery. He wants to free-feed around the enclosure, so it's very hard to keep track of all the bugs. It's a bioactive terrarium so there's dirt in there, and he digs around in the exact same spot in the dirt all the time. Not sure if he's looking for food or just hiding or something.

Charms shed about 1 month ago. I'm not sure if he's normal / healthy and just starting a new shed, or if there's something going on with him, but my wife keeps telling me his head looks dull in color suddenly. I'm colorblind so I can't really tell.

His behavior is normal and has not changed in recent weeks. He's feisty, has a strong grip, eats crickets, and takes massive dumps every morning. He basks and patrols regularly. Eyes are always open when lights are on.

• Do you see any problems with his skin or his poop?
• How often should I expect a 5 month old to shed?

How Charms looks today:

How he looked last week:

(the black stuff on his face is soil. He sticks his face in the dirt sometimes. I have never figured out why. I do not think he's eating the dirt, but he kind of shovels through it with his hands and face)

His enclosure (bioactive, lots of pothos, one dracaena, one prayer plant, two fake plants top left and right for hiding / sleeping. Lots of isopods, earthworms, and springtails):

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 5-month old male veiled, in my care for 2 months
• Handling - rare
• Feeding - I feed him 10 small dusted crickets per day in the morning when I turn his lights on, but he does not eat in front of me. They go in with a few dubia roaches and one waxworm grub. The bugs basically just climb out of the gallery and once every few days we have to pick them up from around the enclosure. All bugs are gut-loaded with carrot, spring mix, and apple. He does appear to be eating because he has big, soft poops the same time every afternoon. We also tried doing a suspended cup with dubia roaches and vegetables, but he does not eat out of it, so I don't think he's actually eating the roaches or the waxworms. He seems to be VERY fussy about eating only crickets.
• Supplements - Once per day, food gets dusted with "Zoo Med Repti Calcium without D3."
  Once every 2 weeks, food gets dusted with "Zoo Med Reptivite with D3."
• Watering - I mist the entire enclosure for 1 minute, twice per day, sometimes three depending on humidity, with the Exo Terra mister (the one you pump). I've never seen Charms drink, but I'm told this is normal.

Cage info:

• Cage Type - Glass and mesh combo, Repti Zoo 24"x18"x36"
• Lighting - Exo Terra 60W Daytime Heat Bulb, T5 HO UV lamp with stock tube bulb that came in the package. 12 hours of light per day, 12 hours of darkness.
• Temperature - Basking temp is 80F. Lower cage is 72. Night time low is 66. Temp and humidity both gaged with the Govee Smart Thermo-Hygrometer recommended by this forum.
• Humidity - Between 35 and 50% during the day (although it hits 70 or 80 temporarily when I mist twice per day), and slowly declines to ~38% at night
• Plants - Dracaena marginata, pothos, prayer plant
• Placement - Cage sits atop a 3-foot desk in the corner of my office. No foot traffic except me working at the computer across the room during the day. He has the entire office to himself at night with door closed.
• Location - Southern California

 

[Beman]

See my feedback in red bold.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 5-month old male veiled, in my care for 2 months
• Handling - rare
• Feeding - I feed him 10 small dusted crickets per day in the morning when I turn his lights on, but he does not eat in front of me. They go in with a few dubia roaches and one waxworm grub. The bugs basically just climb out of the gallery and once every few days we have to pick them up from around the enclosure. All bugs are gut-loaded with carrot, spring mix, and apple. Make sure your spring mix does not have Spinach as it binds calcium absorption. He does appear to be eating because he has big, soft poops the same time every afternoon. We also tried doing a suspended cup with dubia roaches and vegetables, but he does not eat out of it, so I don't think he's actually eating the roaches or the waxworms. He seems to be VERY fussy about eating only crickets. So this is really not enough for food intake when they are young. They can easily take down 24 insects a day. I am not sure what type of gallery you purchased as I can not see it in the cage. But this is the best way to get them to eat. Sometimes it means making sure it is positioned right in the cage. This way you track the exact food intake per day. And you do not have dead or breeding insects in your cage. But additionally if you have a parasite issue you have to treat him for you can not limit exposure if he will only free feed.
• Supplements - Once per day, food gets dusted with "Zoo Med Repti Calcium without D3."
  Once every 2 weeks, food gets dusted with "Zoo Med Reptivite with D3."
• Watering - I mist the entire enclosure for 1 minute, twice per day, sometimes three depending on humidity, with the Exo Terra mister (the one you pump). I've never seen Charms drink, but I'm told this is normal. You need to add a drip cup to the top. So it drips onto the plants. Solo plastic cup with a few tiny pin holes add ice cubes set on the top screen above the plants. Orange urates indicate dehydration.

Cage info:

• Cage Type - Glass and mesh combo, Repti Zoo 24"x18"x36" This is going to be small for an adult male.
• Lighting - Exo Terra 60W Daytime Heat Bulb, T5 HO UV lamp with stock tube bulb that came in the package. 12 hours of light per day, 12 hours of darkness. Measure your distance from the screen to the branch right below the UVB it should be 8-9 inches for the right UVI exposure.
• Temperature - Basking temp is 80F. Lower cage is 72. Night time low is 66. Temp and humidity both gaged with the Govee Smart Thermo-Hygrometer recommended by this forum.
• Humidity - Between 35 and 50% during the day (although it hits 70 or 80 temporarily when I mist twice per day), and slowly declines to ~38% at night Your daytime humidity is pushing too high. Need it below 45% daytime. Keep an eye on this hot humid temps without air circulation and in a set up like yours meaning glass with bio active can create an environment where they develop an RI.
• Plants - Dracaena marginata, pothos, prayer plant
• Placement - Cage sits atop a 3-foot desk in the corner of my office. No foot traffic except me working at the computer across the room during the day. He has the entire office to himself at night with door closed.
• Location - Southern California

Hi everyone, my 5-month-old male veiled is looking a bit discolored, and his urates are orange -- but his poops are still super wet and slimy. I wanted to ask for a health check. So slimy is actually not a good thing. This can be a major indicator of a parasite issue. Orange urate means dehydrated if it is more than 50%.

This little dude is 16.1g, up from 12.4g exactly one month ago. So he is actually very underweight for a 5 month old. at 5 months he should be closer to the 50 gram size. Another indication of a possible parasite issue when you combine it with the slimy fecal.
He eats crickets (confirmed), dubias and wax worms (not confirmed; never seen him actually go for them). Supplement info included below.
He will not eat out of a feeder cup or a shooting gallery. He wants to free-feed around the enclosure, so it's very hard to keep track of all the bugs. It's a bioactive terrarium so there's dirt in there, and he digs around in the exact same spot in the dirt all the time. Not sure if he's looking for food or just hiding or something. See feedback above on the risks of free feeding.

Charms shed about 1 month ago. I'm not sure if he's normal / healthy and just starting a new shed, or if there's something going on with him, but my wife keeps telling me his head looks dull in color suddenly. I'm colorblind so I can't really tell. With the small weight gain it does not surprise me that he has not shed again. He has normal coloring for a baby.

His behavior is normal and has not changed in recent weeks. He's feisty, has a strong grip, eats crickets, and takes massive dumps every morning. He basks and patrols regularly. Eyes are always open when lights are on.

• Do you see any problems with his skin or his poop? Yes, get a fecal test run. You need to rule out a parasite issue as the cause for reduced weight gain and slimy fecal.
• How often should I expect a 5 month old to shed? Depending on how much they are taking in and their growth weight this can be every 3-4 weeks with a healthy baby.

 

[Charms]

See my feedback in red bold.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 5-month old male veiled, in my care for 2 months
• Handling - rare
• Feeding - I feed him 10 small dusted crickets per day in the morning when I turn his lights on, but he does not eat in front of me. They go in with a few dubia roaches and one waxworm grub. The bugs basically just climb out of the gallery and once every few days we have to pick them up from around the enclosure. All bugs are gut-loaded with carrot, spring mix, and apple. Make sure your spring mix does not have Spinach as it binds calcium absorption. He does appear to be eating because he has big, soft poops the same time every afternoon. We also tried doing a suspended cup with dubia roaches and vegetables, but he does not eat out of it, so I don't think he's actually eating the roaches or the waxworms. He seems to be VERY fussy about eating only crickets. So this is really not enough for food intake when they are young. They can easily take down 24 insects a day. I am not sure what type of gallery you purchased as I can not see it in the cage. But this is the best way to get them to eat. Sometimes it means making sure it is positioned right in the cage. This way you track the exact food intake per day. And you do not have dead or breeding insects in your cage. But additionally if you have a parasite issue you have to treat him for you can not limit exposure if he will only free feed.
• Supplements - Once per day, food gets dusted with "Zoo Med Repti Calcium without D3."
  Once every 2 weeks, food gets dusted with "Zoo Med Reptivite with D3."
• Watering - I mist the entire enclosure for 1 minute, twice per day, sometimes three depending on humidity, with the Exo Terra mister (the one you pump). I've never seen Charms drink, but I'm told this is normal. You need to add a drip cup to the top. So it drips onto the plants. Solo plastic cup with a few tiny pin holes add ice cubes set on the top screen above the plants. Orange urates indicate dehydration.

Cage info:

• Cage Type - Glass and mesh combo, Repti Zoo 24"x18"x36" This is going to be small for an adult male.
• Lighting - Exo Terra 60W Daytime Heat Bulb, T5 HO UV lamp with stock tube bulb that came in the package. 12 hours of light per day, 12 hours of darkness. Measure your distance from the screen to the branch right below the UVB it should be 8-9 inches for the right UVI exposure.
• Temperature - Basking temp is 80F. Lower cage is 72. Night time low is 66. Temp and humidity both gaged with the Govee Smart Thermo-Hygrometer recommended by this forum.
• Humidity - Between 35 and 50% during the day (although it hits 70 or 80 temporarily when I mist twice per day), and slowly declines to ~38% at night Your daytime humidity is pushing too high. Need it below 45% daytime. Keep an eye on this hot humid temps without air circulation and in a set up like yours meaning glass with bio active can create an environment where they develop an RI.
• Plants - Dracaena marginata, pothos, prayer plant
• Placement - Cage sits atop a 3-foot desk in the corner of my office. No foot traffic except me working at the computer across the room during the day. He has the entire office to himself at night with door closed.
• Location - Southern California

Hi everyone, my 5-month-old male veiled is looking a bit discolored, and his urates are orange -- but his poops are still super wet and slimy. I wanted to ask for a health check. So slimy is actually not a good thing. This can be a major indicator of a parasite issue. Orange urate means dehydrated if it is more than 50%.

This little dude is 16.1g, up from 12.4g exactly one month ago. So he is actually very underweight for a 5 month old. at 5 months he should be closer to the 50 gram size. Another indication of a possible parasite issue when you combine it with the slimy fecal.
He eats crickets (confirmed), dubias and wax worms (not confirmed; never seen him actually go for them). Supplement info included below.
He will not eat out of a feeder cup or a shooting gallery. He wants to free-feed around the enclosure, so it's very hard to keep track of all the bugs. It's a bioactive terrarium so there's dirt in there, and he digs around in the exact same spot in the dirt all the time. Not sure if he's looking for food or just hiding or something. See feedback above on the risks of free feeding.

Charms shed about 1 month ago. I'm not sure if he's normal / healthy and just starting a new shed, or if there's something going on with him, but my wife keeps telling me his head looks dull in color suddenly. I'm colorblind so I can't really tell. With the small weight gain it does not surprise me that he has not shed again. He has normal coloring for a baby.

His behavior is normal and has not changed in recent weeks. He's feisty, has a strong grip, eats crickets, and takes massive dumps every morning. He basks and patrols regularly. Eyes are always open when lights are on.

• Do you see any problems with his skin or his poop? Yes, get a fecal test run. You need to rule out a parasite issue as the cause for reduced weight gain and slimy fecal.
• How often should I expect a 5 month old to shed? Depending on how much they are taking in and their growth weight this can be every 3-4 weeks with a healthy baby.

He will not eat out of a gallery. Or feeder cups. Or hand-feeding. Or anything at all, ever.
He will only eat bugs that crawl around the enclosure, and even when he does that, it's only about 5 bugs a day. We have to go in and remove bugs all the time.

I don't understand how his humidity is too high but he's also dehydrated?

He has passed 2 fecal parasite tests: one 2 months ago, and another last month. I suppose I can get him a third one tomorrow, but at this point I'd almost rather just surrender him because he has fucking hated living with me from day one. He's super defensive, freaks out any time he sees humans, refuses to eat, digs at the bottom of the enclosure a lot... I just don't understand what his problem is. We've rebuilt the entire enclosure three times per the advice of this community. I even paid Neptune The Chameleon for an hour video meeting.

I think I need to just give this dude up. Any links on how to do this?

 

[Beman]

He will not eat out of a gallery. Or feeder cups. Or hand-feeding. Or anything at all, ever.
He will only eat bugs that crawl around the enclosure, and even when he does that, it's only about 5 bugs a day. We have to go in and remove bugs all the time.

I don't understand how his humidity is too high but he's also dehydrated?

He has passed 2 fecal parasite tests: one 2 months ago, and another last month. I suppose I can get him a third one tomorrow, but at this point I'd almost rather just surrender him because he has fucking hated living with me from day one. He's super defensive, freaks out any time he sees humans, refuses to eat, digs at the bottom of the enclosure a lot... I just don't understand what his problem is. We've rebuilt the entire enclosure three times per the advice of this community. I even paid Neptune The Chameleon for an hour video meeting.

I think I need to just give this dude up. Any links on how to do this?

He will not eat out of a gallery. Or feeder cups. Or hand-feeding. Or anything at all, ever. This is something you have to be persistent with and train them into. Placement and ease of access is important as well.
He will only eat bugs that crawl around the enclosure, and even when he does that, it's only about 5 bugs a day. We have to go in and remove bugs all the time. Even with him free feeding he should be actively hunting and taking down much more than 5 a day. This points back to the possibility of a parasite load in which it is effecting his appetite.

I don't understand how his humidity is too high but he's also dehydrated? Because hydration through humidity is done with cold temps and high humidity like fogging or misting at night with levels of 80% or more. Your saying that during the night it drops to 35% when your temps are colder and within correct range for night. This does not do the trick for this form of hydration. We are not trying to provide high humidity during the day with the heat because hot moist air can create a respiratory infection. While cold moist air when they breath it in assists in hydration. This method is one method of hydration. Other methods are misting and using a dripper. With your cage type you may have to remove the morning misting so it does not build higher humidity during the day and instead provide the dripper which does not elevate the ambient humidity.

He has passed 2 fecal parasite tests: one 2 months ago, and another last month. I suppose I can get him a third one tomorrow, but at this point I'd almost rather just surrender him because he has fucking hated living with me from day one. He's super defensive, freaks out any time he sees humans, refuses to eat, digs at the bottom of the enclosure a lot... I just don't understand what his problem is. We've rebuilt the entire enclosure three times per the advice of this community. I even paid Neptune The Chameleon for an hour video meeting.

I think I need to just give this dude up. Any links on how to do this?

Ok so sometimes they can pass a fecal test due to the parasites not being in the cycle of shedding oocysts. Meaning their eggs. This is what is seen on the fecal. If they are not in this phase of the cycle the parasite issue can be missed. It is why when they are shedding the oocysts that they are seen and identified based on type of parasite and treatment method.

I am sorry you are discouraged. Chameleons especially veileds are not the holding type of animal. Most tolerate their owners. While Panthers tend to have a more calm demeanor they too can be aggressive and not like any form of human interaction. Chameleons to me are more like having fish tanks. If you go into it thinking that then if you get one with a more tolerant personality it ends up being a bonus. They are not easy animals to keep as you have experienced. There is a lot that goes into their husbandry both with learning and financial aspects.

If you want to give him up we have the forum classifieds. If you want to do it without a fee you can post in the forum rehome without fee section https://www.chameleonforums.com/forums/chameleon-rehome-no-fee.89/ . If you are wanting to charge a fee then you would post in chameleons for sale section. https://www.chameleonforums.com/forums/chameleons-for-sale.47/
I recommend being detailed with your post in either of these sections of what you are including, location, etc. As this will attract more interaction.

 

[Charms]

He will not eat out of a gallery. Or feeder cups. Or hand-feeding. Or anything at all, ever. This is something you have to be persistent with and train them into. Placement and ease of access is important as well.
He will only eat bugs that crawl around the enclosure, and even when he does that, it's only about 5 bugs a day. We have to go in and remove bugs all the time. Even with him free feeding he should be actively hunting and taking down much more than 5 a day. This points back to the possibility of a parasite load in which it is effecting his appetite.

I don't understand how his humidity is too high but he's also dehydrated? Because hydration through humidity is done with cold temps and high humidity like fogging or misting at night with levels of 80% or more. Your saying that during the night it drops to 35% when your temps are colder and within correct range for night. This does not do the trick for this form of hydration. We are not trying to provide high humidity during the day with the heat because hot moist air can create a respiratory infection. While cold moist air when they breath it in assists in hydration. This method is one method of hydration. Other methods are misting and using a dripper. With your cage type you may have to remove the morning misting so it does not build higher humidity during the day and instead provide the dripper which does not elevate the ambient humidity.

He has passed 2 fecal parasite tests: one 2 months ago, and another last month. I suppose I can get him a third one tomorrow, but at this point I'd almost rather just surrender him because he has fucking hated living with me from day one. He's super defensive, freaks out any time he sees humans, refuses to eat, digs at the bottom of the enclosure a lot... I just don't understand what his problem is. We've rebuilt the entire enclosure three times per the advice of this community. I even paid Neptune The Chameleon for an hour video meeting.

I think I need to just give this dude up. Any links on how to do this?

Ok so sometimes they can pass a fecal test due to the parasites not being in the cycle of shedding oocysts. Meaning their eggs. This is what is seen on the fecal. If they are not in this phase of the cycle the parasite issue can be missed. It is why when they are shedding the oocysts that they are seen and identified based on type of parasite and treatment method.

I am sorry you are discouraged. Chameleons especially veileds are not the holding type of animal. Most tolerate their owners. While Panthers tend to have a more calm demeanor they too can be aggressive and not like any form of human interaction. Chameleons to me are more like having fish tanks. If you go into it thinking that then if you get one with a more tolerant personality it ends up being a bonus. They are not easy animals to keep as you have experienced. There is a lot that goes into their husbandry both with learning and financial aspects.

If you want to give him up we have the forum classifieds. If you want to do it without a fee you can post in the forum rehome without fee section https://www.chameleonforums.com/forums/chameleon-rehome-no-fee.89/ . If you are wanting to charge a fee then you would post in chameleons for sale section. https://www.chameleonforums.com/forums/chameleons-for-sale.47/
I recommend being detailed with your post in either of these sections of what you are including, location, etc. As this will attract more interaction.

Thanks for your feedback.
Just to be clear, I am not holding this little dude almost ever; only to weigh him once a week. I'm not trying to play with him or anything. I understand chameleons are to be left alone, especially veiled chams.

 

[Beman]

Thanks for your feedback.
Just to be clear, I am not holding this little dude almost ever; only to weigh him once a week. I'm not trying to play with him or anything. I understand chameleons are to be left alone, especially veiled chams.

I did not think you were. And I am in no way wanting to make you feel bad. Just give you the information to make an informed decision. And just wanting to make it clear that his response to you has nothing to do with you. It is just how he is going to be.

I had one that literally chased me out of the cage. I would have to wear gloves to get him out and weigh him. No matter what I did we never had any form of trust or bond he just hated me with all of his being. So I get the unfriendly veiled thing. It can make all you do a provide for them feel like your not doing enough. But its just that they are brats and little raptors lol.

 

[Gloriawood]

Beman is giving you the best advice. I just want to chime in and say take a breath. I’ve read your posts as you’ve made them and to be honest, you’re doing much better than a lot of people. I know how frustrating it can be. I have a veiled. He is my first reptile. It was a huge learning curve for me. Especially since I was trying to help him recover from health issues when I first got him. It took a long time for him to get better. Taking care of him was so much more than I expected it to be. However, once I got everything adjusted just right and got a routine down, it’s truly not bad at all.

If you truly feel rehoming him is the best for you, we can help you. BUT like Beman said, his attitude has nothing to do with you or the care you are giving him. They are just like that. I would sleep on it at the very least. I just don’t want you making any sudden decisions when you are frustrated.