Heartbreaking decision to make - young panther with poor tongue aim

[Milch]

I’ve had 4.5 month old panther for just over a week and when I hand feed him he nearly always misses the target, and he much prefers getting close up to his prey, extending his tongue a few inches.

The seller, a very reputable breeder, has offered to replace him based on my videos.

As far as I’m aware his husbandry has been top notch, but from day 1 his aim has been clearly off.

Does anyone know if his aim is likely to improve, or is there something wrong with him that could signal long term problems?

I’m really attached to the little guy so I’m torn over what to do. Please help!

 

[Beman]

Hey there welcome to the forum... It could be something as simple as baby hyper extended his tongue. This typically resolves on its own you just want to ensure he can get within a few inches of his insect so he does not need to extend as far while it is healing. Which would mean avoid hand feeding right now if targeting is compromised. Too easy for him to get latched on to your finger and then make it worse.

Make sure supplements are on point as well. He should have been getting a multivitmain with A and D3 at least 1-2 times a month then calcium at all other feedings.

 

[Milch]

Hey there welcome to the forum... It could be something as simple as baby hyper extended his tongue. This typically resolves on its own you just want to ensure he can get within a few inches of his insect so he does not need to extend as far while it is healing. Which would mean avoid hand feeding right now if targeting is compromised. Too easy for him to get latched on to your finger and then make it worse.

Make sure supplements are on point as well. He should have been getting a multivitmain with A and D3 at least 1-2 times a month then calcium at all other feedings.

Thank you, Beman

The breeder told me to feed my cham a daily mixture of:

Calcium

Bee pollen

Except for two days a week when he gets this:

Multivitamin

(The latter claims ‘this provides at least 100 IU/kg of pro-vitamin A, the water-soluble natural source of vitamin A for animals that cannot be overdosed’)

He said that those dustings along with a regularly changed UV bulb will give my cham everything he needs.

I’m inclined to trust him based on his reputation, impressive premises, and the sheer number of reptiles he breeds (and he specialises in chams), but based on your knowledge do you think my cham is getting sufficient nutrients?

Thanks again!

 

[ERKleRose]

Hi there, and welcome on here!

I’ve had a chameleon with tongue issues, and he lived a wonderful life with his tongue handicap! He ate up close in a bowl like a bearded dragon would (I used these bowls myself: https://www.rainbowmealworms.net/no-escapee-feeder-dishes/ )

For chameleons, you want a prEformed Vitamin A (retinol), not just a prOformed Vitamin A (beta carotene), as it’s not known if chameleons can turn prOformed Vit. A into prEformed Vit. A in their bodies on their own. Saying that, you only want to give a multivitamin with prEformed Vit. A once every two weeks since you have a panther.

The breeder has been using the wrong supplements, I’d see if you could get a refund regardless of if you keep your current cham or replace him, and/or see if he will cover your vet bills. For your supplements, you’ll use the Earth Pro A every feeding (if your cham starts to show signs of edema, switch to Arcadia’s plain calcium as the bee pollen can sometimes cause that when given directly to the chameleon). You’ll want to get the RevitaliseD3 to use as your multivitamin and D3 every two weeks. He has had no D3 given to him orally, so hopefully his uvi levels have been high enough at the breeder’s place

A few more questions, sorry! How far away is his uvb bulb away from his basking branch, and what is the brand, strength of fixture, and strength of uvb bulb? Last one is what do you gutload with?

 

[Milch]

Hi there, and welcome on here!

I’ve had a chameleon with tongue issues, and he lived a wonderful life with his tongue handicap! He ate up close in a bowl like a bearded dragon would (I used these bowls myself: https://www.rainbowmealworms.net/no-escapee-feeder-dishes/ )

For chameleons, you want a prEformed Vitamin A (retinol), not just a prOformed Vitamin A (beta carotene), as it’s not known if chameleons can turn prOformed Vit. A into prEformed Vit. A in their bodies on their own. Saying that, you only want to give a multivitamin with prEformed Vit. A once every two weeks since you have a panther.

The breeder has been using the wrong supplements, I’d see if you could get a refund regardless of if you keep your current cham or replace him, and/or see if he will cover your vet bills. For your supplements, you’ll use the Earth Pro A every feeding (if your cham starts to show signs of edema, switch to Arcadia’s plain calcium as the bee pollen can sometimes cause that when given directly to the chameleon). You’ll want to get the RevitaliseD3 to use as your multivitamin and D3 every two weeks. He has had no D3 given to him orally, so hopefully his uvi levels have been high enough at the breeder’s place

A few more questions, sorry! How far away is his uvb bulb away from his basking branch, and what is the brand, strength of fixture, and strength of uvb bulb? Last one is what do you gutload with?

Thank for your advice!

Is this the A and D3 supplement you’re referring to?

Do I dust all of his 5-8 locusts on that fortnightly day with that powder?

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi there. You’ve gotten some great advice here so far on supplements. I just want to provide you with the most current and correct husbandry standards that most of us (if not all) go by. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ I don’t want to discount the care that your breeder provides to their animals, but I can say that by following the current husbandry standards, we are having our chameleons live longer and healthier lives.

 

[ERKleRose]

Thank for your advice!

Is this the A and D3 supplement you’re referring to?

Do I dust all of his 5-8 locusts on that fortnightly day with that powder?

Yes it is!

Yes, you’ll dust all of his feeders, same with the calcium!
At his age, let him eat as much as he wants

 

[nightanole]

Unfortunately chams can not compensate/adapt aim. Its hardwared in.

So if the fling bone is deformed due to lack of calcium/D3, the cham will miss for the rest of its life. As the cham is very young, its possible that with good husbandry the bone will correct itself with growth to adulthood.
If the issue is muscle weakness imbalance, that can also be corrected quite fast with supplements.

As for missing in general, id say only a few of my chams since the 90's made it to death with a fully functional tongue. Most lost the ability at some point due to injury(over extending, feeder had a death grip, falling while pulling, etc). They adapted quickly to just getting closer to the target. A few ended up with zero shooting ablity, and just ate like beardies for the rest of their life.

 

[kinyonga]

@nightanole said…”As for missing in general, id say only a few of my chams since the 90's made it to death with a fully functional tongue”…I never had that problem.over 30+ years of keeping chameleons, I only had two that I remember having tongue issues, and they were hyper extensions and had to be amputated. I don’t know what the experiences of others have been.

 

[nightanole]

@nightanole said…”As for missing in general, id say only a few of my chams since the 90's made it to death with a fully functional tongue”…I never had that problem.over 30+ years of keeping chameleons, I only had two that I remember having tongue issues, and they were hyper extensions and had to be amputated. I don’t know what the experiences of others have been.

I have had zero amputations, so at least i won that lottery. But ive only had 1 chameleon at a time, so we are talking less than a dozen as a sample size. And all of mine have been due to injuries, not mbd.

 

[yungzerk]

My nosy be panther is the same way but he learned to eat and use his tounge in a way that allows him to eat like a monster Best luck to you and your little guy!