Heated Mist Water Experiment

[Mike Fisher]

Room temp: 68F
Heated water temp: 111F
Mist temp 1" from nozzle: 71F

Median micron droplet size: 55 micron
Tubing length from pump to nozzle: 4.5 feet

Difference between reservoir and dispensed/atomized mist: -40F
Difference between room temp and dispensed/atomized mist: +3F

Pic shows 71F mist temp in top display,the stored maximum of 111F for the reservoir and the stored minimum for my cham room this month 60F.

YMMV

 

[DanSB]

Very cool, thanks for sharing. I always fill my hand mister with heated water and I know that when the water misted heat loss is incredibly fast. I've been wondering how warm it needs to be to send out a slightly above room temperature mist.

It would be interesting to see how much heat is lost per foot of tubing to make a little calculator to determine optimal reservoir temperature per foot of tubing. My bet is the loss is minimal though...

 

[summoner12]

Curious, what is your conclusion?

I have always just used room temp water. Mostly I feel the 'energy' to heat the water is a waste unless the heating element is only on for a short amount of time. Always thought it odd to run a 200w heater in a tub of water 24/7 to keep it warm was not worth the money.

I've contemplated using a tube like inline heater for a couple of years but have never tried it out. Someone on here used a coffee heater for their DIY heater, that was impressive. They are just hard to come by.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Curious, what is your conclusion?

I left out my opinion, so people can draw their own based on their own setups.

In my case, I believe it would be a huge waste of energy to heat that water 24/7 to get a 3 degree increase over the ambient.

Another thing I didn't mention is that it took 5 minutes before the water temp out of the nozzle stabilized. It started out @ 68F and slowly rose to 71F after 5 minutes. Probably due to heat soak into the tubing. I ran it for 15 minutes to be sure that was going to be as warm as it was going to get. After 15 minutes, it started dropping because the water in the reservoir started to cool.

So it got a 3 degree increase after 5 minutes, so if I was heating the water, I would need to run the misting cycles at least that long to get a 3 degree benefit.

The real thing I was doing is heating the air at the top of the enclosure. The hot water is exiting the nozzle, but due to the fine droplet size, that heat is lost almost instantly to the air. In a screen cage, that heat dissipates out of the enclosure pretty fast I imagine.

The other thing that stacks the deck against me heating the water.....I was measuring the closest nozzle to the pump. I have other nozzles that have 16 feet or more between the pump and nozzle. I suspect that those nozzles would show no increase in temperature over ambient. If so, it would be very slight after an extended mist cycle of 15 minutes or more I'd imagine.

Once again, YMMV.

 

[Garf]

How about coiling the supply line on a heat mat, near the nozzles. Or put a coil at the hottest part of the enclosure, out of the way obviously. I would have thought on a 20 or 30 second spray duration, it's only the water in the pipe that ends up in the enclosure.

 

[nick barta]

I left out my opinion, so people can draw their own based on their own setups.

In my case, I believe it would be a huge waste of energy to heat that water 24/7 to get a 3 degree increase over the ambient.

Another thing I didn't mention is that it took 5 minutes before the water temp out of the nozzle stabilized. It started out @ 68F and slowly rose to 71F after 5 minutes. Probably due to heat soak into the tubing. I ran it for 15 minutes to be sure that was going to be as warm as it was going to get. After 15 minutes, it started dropping because the water in the reservoir started to cool.

So it got a 3 degree increase after 5 minutes, so if I was heating the water, I would need to run the misting cycles at least that long to get a 3 degree benefit.

The real thing I was doing is heating the air at the top of the enclosure. The hot water is exiting the nozzle, but due to the fine droplet size, that heat is lost almost instantly to the air. In a screen cage, that heat dissipates out of the enclosure pretty fast I imagine.

The other thing that stacks the deck against me heating the water.....I was measuring the closest nozzle to the pump. I have other nozzles that have 16 feet or more between the pump and nozzle. I suspect that those nozzles would show no increase in temperature over ambient. If so, it would be very slight after an extended mist cycle of 15 minutes or more I'd imagine.

Once again, YMMV.

Mike,

Thanks for doing a credible look at the heated water debate. You have confirmed my primitive methods of checking the temperature at the nozzles.

I always look forward to your posts, keep it up!

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[nick barta]

I left out my opinion, so people can draw their own based on their own setups.

In my case, I believe it would be a huge waste of energy to heat that water 24/7 to get a 3 degree increase over the ambient.

Another thing I didn't mention is that it took 5 minutes before the water temp out of the nozzle stabilized. It started out @ 68F and slowly rose to 71F after 5 minutes. Probably due to heat soak into the tubing. I ran it for 15 minutes to be sure that was going to be as warm as it was going to get. After 15 minutes, it started dropping because the water in the reservoir started to cool.

So it got a 3 degree increase after 5 minutes, so if I was heating the water, I would need to run the misting cycles at least that long to get a 3 degree benefit.

The real thing I was doing is heating the air at the top of the enclosure. The hot water is exiting the nozzle, but due to the fine droplet size, that heat is lost almost instantly to the air. In a screen cage, that heat dissipates out of the enclosure pretty fast I imagine.

The other thing that stacks the deck against me heating the water.....I was measuring the closest nozzle to the pump. I have other nozzles that have 16 feet or more between the pump and nozzle. I suspect that those nozzles would show no increase in temperature over ambient. If so, it would be very slight after an extended mist cycle of 15 minutes or more I'd imagine.

Once again, YMMV.

Excuse my abbreviation ignorance-Age/slow...all I could come up with is You Make Me Vicious.
Please educate me...

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[Mike Fisher]

I always look forward to your posts, keep it up!

CHEERS!

Nick

Thanks, Nick!

 

[Mike Fisher]

Excuse my abbreviation ignorance-Age/slow...all I could come up with is You Make Me Vicious.
Please educate me...

CHEERS!

Nick

Lol, "your mileage may vary".

 

[Mike Fisher]

How about coiling the supply line on a heat mat, near the nozzles. Or put a coil at the hottest part of the enclosure, out of the way obviously. I would have thought on a 20 or 30 second spray duration, it's only the water in the pipe that ends up in the enclosure.

Sure, you'd eliminate the heat lost to cold tubing and tubing length, but I believe that most of the heat is lost due to atomization, not through tubing losses.

 

[SMCNARY]

Mike
I must say I am impressed with your work on this issue!!! I have always been a strong advocate FOR HEATING misting water and would swear I've seen a difference in my chams behavior between heated and non heated water. That said your work here shows no significant difference in the actual temperature at the nozzle so I must conclude that heating the supply water DOES NOT make a difference. Thanks for the good work on this,I guess I've been just wasting the energy by heating mine.
You live,you learn and hopefully share what you learn with others!!!!
Well done SIR!!!!
Thank You
Steve

 

[Mike Fisher]

Mike
I must say I am impressed with your work on this issue!!! I have always been a strong advocate FOR HEATING misting water and would swear I've seen a difference in my chams behavior between heated and non heated water. That said your work here shows no significant difference in the actual temperature at the nozzle so I must conclude that heating the supply water DOES NOT make a difference. Thanks for the good work on this,I guess I've been just wasting the energy by heating mine.
You live,you learn and hopefully share what you learn with others!!!!
Well done SIR!!!!
Thank You
Steve

Steve,

Thank you! Your observations are still valid. Because it still could be slightly above ambient, coupled with the heat dissipating to the air at the top of the cage, it could still be more comfortable for your chameleons. Also, if your nozzles provide a larger droplet size, the heat losses will be less. Mine are very fine fogger type.

Do Mistking or Aquazamp publish what mean droplet size you can expect?

Data is good, but observations are just as valid sometimes. I'm more of a cost vs. benefit type of guy. With energy costs as high as they are, I just don't think it makes much sense for me.

 

[SMCNARY]

Mike
I will look at the literature from Mistking and see if it has any information on the size of droplets at the nozzle.I may try NOT heating the water to see if I still think I notice any change in behavior. I do definitely see a difference when hand misting with warmer water.I only do that for proper eye maintenance and watch for my chams to roll their eyes around while I mist them. They will run from the hand held misting if it is not warm but stay and let me spray them with the warmer water. I want to be able to monitor their eye movement as I feel it has proven to be a helpful tool in eye health. Still I think your information is very helpful as I don't think most people(including me ) have kept the water in the reservoir as hot as in your test and also your comment about the distance from the reservoir to the nozzle seems valid. Some of my mist nozzels are 20 plus feet from the reservoir so it would seem likely to have even less effect at the nozzel. I may still need to heat my water as I drop my room temp. significantly at night but for the majority of people here heating the water may be just a wast of $$$ on the heating equipment and energy cost.
Thanks again for the good work.
Steve

 

[Mike Fisher]

Mike
I do definitely see a difference when hand misting with warmer water.I only do that for proper eye maintenance and watch for my chams to roll their eyes around while I mist them.

That's one advantage that the hand misting mafia has over us automated types. Because the droplet size is bigger, and the nozzle is attached directly to the reservoir, you won't get as much thermal loss.

The higher the pressure and the smaller the orifice, the more thermal losses you will see. Then add in the heat migration to the tubing and it is easy to see that you are up against a losing battle.

Once again the laws of thermodynamics are unyielding.....

 

[Garf]

So, a coiled supply, heat mat, polystyrene sandwich may be the most efficient solution then.

 

[Mike Fisher]

So, a coiled supply, heat mat, polystyrene sandwich may be the most efficient solution then.

I would still bet that 75 percent or more of the losses are caused by fine atomization of the spray. There is so much surface area that the heat dissipates to the air before it can hit your chameleon.

 

[Garf]

Yes, but it does dissipate into the air, it may not be wasted. Either way, I'm game for trying the coiled polystyrene sandwich test.

 

[deerharvester]

Thank you very much, just outta curiosity did u test it unheated? Thanks for the effort im sure everyone will appreciate it.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Thank you very much, just outta curiosity did u test it unheated? Thanks for the effort im sure everyone will appreciate it.

Yes, and the results were unspectacular. Same temp in reservoir/mist as ambient....boring, but had to do it to be sure.

 

[danTHAman152000]

For my free range set up, I take my 5 gallon bucket and fill it with hot hot water, then run my mist king for 15 minutes. My 1 year old veiled runs under it after a couple minutes and enjoys the warm mist.

But I know your systems may vary, as perhaps there is a built in water supply. Instead, I fill up my bucket manually.

I always pondered the idea about "if you need drainage, you're watering too much." Now that my free range set up is sitting on top of tile, if a few drops fall off onto the ground, no biggie at all. No drainage needed!