Help! Can’t Keep humidity up with heater on

[Averyshazam]

Hey guys! I had no problem with my humidity staying between 50%-60% until it started getting cold and the heat is drying out my entire apartment. I got a fogger and it’s on almost all day and night, I added some shower curtain plastic to the front door and the bottom of the screen in the outside and the next step would be to get a humidifier for the room. Anyone have any tips?
I have a screen dragon strand enclosure. I have shower curtain taped to both sides as well.
I’m considering getting custom PVC cuts to attach to the sides instead.

 

[Carloscruz]

What chameleon do you have and I would not recommend using a fogger during the day.

 

[Averyshazam]

Also I have my mistking go off for 6 minutes in the morning, 7 minutes at night, and 2 minutes at 1:30 am and also at 5:00am. I know this is a lot of water but I’m not sure what else to do!

 

[Averyshazam]

What chameleon do you have and I would not recommend using a fogger during the day.

Why is that? I have an ambilobe panther. The fogger doesn’t seem to impact the humidity at all tbh!

 

[Carloscruz]

50% to 60% humidity is perfect for a Panther chameleon in the day

 

[Carloscruz]

You don’t wanna use a fogger during the day because heat and humidity can be the result of a respiratory infection.

 

[Averyshazam]

You don’t wanna use a fogger during the day because heat and humidity can be the result of a respiratory infection.

Yes but I’m telling you the humidity is too low; today it went down to 37%

 

[Carloscruz]

How are you measuring the humidity

 

[xxaprilrose]

I’ve been struggling myself. I’ve been really saturating the soil on ALL my plants. The mister doesn’t get all of the plants and even still I find me going in there and manually doing it brings the humidity up a lot. U have to water each plant like 45 seconds to a min sometimes

 

[Blue_Chams]

Same here. I am running 4 cool mist humidifiers and a large whole house evaporative humidifier around the clock pretty much and it’s all I can to to maintain 50-55% humidity. I refill them daily. Gas furnaces are very drying. The whole house evaporative humidifier made a big difference. I highly recommend picking one up. They run $120-$185 and hold 4.5-6 gallons.

 

[Carloscruz]

The reason why am asking is because sometimes the hygrometer don’t measured humidity right.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

To elucidate on what Carloscruz just said above, analog/dial type hygrometers and thermometers can be notoriously inaccurate—up to 40%/40°F off. Digital hygrometers & thermometers with probes are much more accurate, in the range of ±2%/2°F.

Also, additional misting may help in a couple of ways. This will not work for everyone or in all situations. Each situation is different, and there are many variables.

I mist for 2 min. sessions—any longer and the water just runs down the drain into the drain bucket—a waste. It takes about 2 hrs. for my enclosure (48 x 24 x 48 hybrid) to dry out completely. Foliage is dense enough that plants are watered separately.

My misting schedule is:

6 am (lights-on)​

Noon (for drinking water)​

6 pm (lights-out)​

9 pm​

Midnight​

3 am​

When plants are misted fairly thoroughly, a microclimate of temperature and humidity are created within a dense foliage canopy. Humidity inside the canopy can be up to 10% higher, and temperature up to 10°F cooler than those outside the canopy. Chameleons usually sleep within the canopy, where it's cooler and more humid. You can test for this by using multiple hygrometer/thermometers, one with probe inside the canopy and another outside the canopy to get your actual Δt and Δh. RH & Temp will converge as the enclosure dries out.

This also results in my not needing a fogger—just the mister.

This will be the second winter with my male panther doing things this way; he has never had any issues with RIs or any other health issues.

 

[Thatwizard420]

Why are foggers during the day bad?
Don't veiled live in a place where it gets misty during the day.

 

[Averyshazam]

You don’t wanna use a fogger during the day because heat and humidity can be the result of a respiratory infection.

Yes but I’m telling you the humidity is too low; today it went down to 37

 

[Averyshazam]

Also I have my mistking go off for 6 minutes in the morning, 7 minutes at night, and 2 minutes at 1:30 am and also at 5:00am. I know this is a lot of water but I’m not sure what else to do!

I may have found a solution! I have a fan blowing inside because I was worried about the circulation and it seemed to actually help the humidity stay where it’s at?

 

[Averyshazam]

To elucidate on what Carloscruz just said above, analog/dial type hygrometers and thermometers can be notoriously inaccurate—up to 40%/40°F off. Digital hygrometers & thermometers with probes are much more accurate, in the range of ±2%/2°F.

Also, additional misting may help in a couple of ways. This will not work for everyone or in all situations. Each situation is different, and there are many variables.

I mist for 2 min. sessions—any longer and the water just runs down the drain into the drain bucket—a waste. It takes about 2 hrs. for my enclosure (48 x 24 x 48 hybrid) to dry out completely. Foliage is dense enough that plants are watered separately.

My misting schedule is:

6 am (lights-on)​

Noon (for drinking water)​

6 pm (lights-out)​

9 pm​

Midnight​

3 am​

When plants are misted fairly thoroughly, a microclimate of temperature and humidity are created within a dense foliage canopy. Humidity inside the canopy can be up to 10% higher, and temperature up to 10°F cooler than those outside the canopy. Chameleons usually sleep within the canopy, where it's cooler and more humid. You can test for this by using multiple hygrometer/thermometers, one with probe inside the canopy and another outside the canopy to get your actual Δt and Δh. RH & Temp will converge as the enclosure dries out.

This also results in my not needing a fogger—just the mister.

This will be the second winter with my male panther doing things this way; he has never had any issues with RIs or any other health issues.

My chameleon doesn’t enjoy the mister during the day and the chameleon academy recommends trying to not listen during the day at all. I have a densely foliated enclosure as you can see above but it only helps me so much I mist many times throughout the night as well.

 

[nightanole]

Why are foggers during the day bad?
Don't veiled live in a place where it gets misty during the day.

It promotes mold growth. Take myself for instance, im near the great lakes, if i want to even keep the humidity at 50%, most of my reptiles will get respiratory infections, and any smooth plastic will start getting this odd cheese protein growth, and i will get mold on all the windows.

Its better to just bite the bullet and survive the next 90 days with sub 40%. Just pretend its the dry season in Madagascar or Yemen.

 

[Averyshazam]

It promotes mold growth. Take myself for instance, im near the great lakes, if i want to even keep the humidity at 50%, most of my reptiles will get respiratory infections, and any smooth plastic will start getting this odd cheese protein growth, and i will get mold on all the windows.

Its better to just bite the bullet and survive the next 90 days with sub 40%. Just pretend its the dry season in Madagascar or Yemen.

I don’t want to “bite the bullet” if the humidity levels are important . But if it isn’t that big of a deal to have the humidity so low during the day then I won’t worry so much. I’m just trying to see which should be the higher priority.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

My chameleon doesn’t enjoy the mister during the day and the chameleon academy recommends trying to not listen during the day at all.

Chameleons have different likes & dislikes just like people. Mine loves the mister during the day, and will come out into the mist and raise each leg in turn like he's taking a shower. On days he's allowed out to explore the Missus' plant table, he won't come out until after he's been misted.

With all due respect, Bill Strand lives and raises his chameleons in California—not the Great Lakes or Northeast where winter heating systems can make the air drier than a popcorn fart.

He also uses drippers, which in my case is redundant.

I have a densely foliated enclosure as you can see above but it only helps me so much I mist many times throughout the night as well.

Sorry, but no, I don't see. 'Densely foliated' is subjective; you have lots of plants, and that's good, but the foliage isn't dense enough (IMO) to produce the microclimate I was talking about.

But lets talk about what I see in your pics above.

I can see you've got a lot of water going in by the amount of condensation (or mist) on the plastic. The question is, where is it going, and why? Thermodynamics say the moisture in the air will seek out drier air. This is (partly) what we have to control.

Also I have my mistking go off for 6 minutes in the morning, 7 minutes at night, and 2 minutes at 1:30 am and also at 5:00am. I know this is a lot of water but I’m not sure what else to do!

That's a LOT of water all at once. Where's it all going? I'd guess (from experience & common sense) anything more than what's necessary to wet down the plants is likely going down the drain(age system), no?

You have the enclosure wrapped, and that's good, but I see significant gaps in the wrapping. This is like trying to heat a log cabin with 1-2" gaps between all of the logs. It can be done, but you're going to have to pump a lot more heat into it (or in this case moisture) than if the gaps were plugged/sealed. It also interferes with the natural stack effect. Window insulation—applied correctly—would do a much better—and less noticeable—job, and it's cheap. A hybrid enclosure would work even better—especially in areas like ours where seasonal conditions vary so greatly (also unlike California)—as the solid sides are also a better insulator than sheet plastic.

I can't see/tell if you have a fan to augment ventilation, but that should be a measure of last resort; stack effect—properly implemented—should be sufficient in most cases.

I'm seeing a double mist head. Two heads are generally recommend for that size enclosure, but the recommendation I got from B.S. (and MistKing) was to put them in the front corners—not right next to each other, where they likely have some overlap, yet may miss other areas. This can limit the effectiveness of your misting.

Something I can't see are any instrumentation probe wires (or instrumentation for that matter), so IDK how (in)accurate your RH readings may/may not be.

---

I recognize we both live in areas with exceptionally dry (for chameleons) winters, and I'm relating what works—for us—from my own husbandry and a lifetime of experience. Like everyone else here, I'm trying to help, but you're free to ignore.

 

[Averyshazam]

Chameleons have different likes & dislikes just like people. Mine loves the mister during the day, and will come out into the mist and raise each leg in turn like he's taking a shower. On days he's allowed out to explore the Missus' plant table, he won't come out until after he's been misted.

With all due respect, Bill Strand lives and raises his chameleons in California—not the Great Lakes or Northeast where winter heating systems can make the air drier than a popcorn fart.

He also uses drippers, which in my case is redundant.


Sorry, but no, I don't see. 'Densely foliated' is subjective; you have lots of plants, and that's good, but the foliage isn't dense enough (IMO) to produce the microclimate I was talking about.

But lets talk about what I see in your pics above.

I can see you've got a lot of water going in by the amount of condensation (or mist) on the plastic. The question is, where is it going, and why? Thermodynamics say the moisture in the air will seek out drier air. This is (partly) what we have to control.


That's a LOT of water all at once. Where's it all going? I'd guess (from experience & common sense) anything more than what's necessary to wet down the plants is likely going down the drain(age system), no?

You have the enclosure wrapped, and that's good, but I see significant gaps in the wrapping. This is like trying to heat a log cabin with 1-2" gaps between all of the logs. It can be done, but you're going to have to pump a lot more heat into it (or in this case moisture) than if the gaps were plugged/sealed. It also interferes with the natural stack effect. Window insulation—applied correctly—would do a much better—and less noticeable—job, and it's cheap. A hybrid enclosure would work even better—especially in areas like ours where seasonal conditions vary so greatly (also unlike California)—as the solid sides are also a better insulator than sheet plastic.

I can't see/tell if you have a fan to augment ventilation, but that should be a measure of last resort; stack effect—properly implemented—should be sufficient in most cases.

I'm seeing a double mist head. Two heads are generally recommend for that size enclosure, but the recommendation I got from B.S. (and MistKing) was to put them in the front corners—not right next to each other, where they likely have some overlap, yet may miss other areas. This can limit the effectiveness of your misting.

Something I can't see are any instrumentation probe wires (or instrumentation for that matter), so IDK how (in)accurate your RH readings may/may not be.

---

I recognize we both live in areas with exceptionally dry (for chameleons) winters, and I'm relating what works—for us—from my own husbandry and a lifetime of experience. Like everyone else here, I'm trying to help, but you're free to ignore.

Well I found this response a little rude if I’m being honest.
Thanks for the advice but I don’t appreciate how you’re speaking to me. I understand you have more experience but there’s no need to talk down. I’m a first time chameleon owner and have been going by the best advice I’ve been able to find so far.
I’m not sure what gaps you’re talking about.
And I am not buying a hybrid enclosure when I spent over 400 on the one I have now just to let the old one sit in my spare bedroom. It would have been ideal but that’s not the decision I initially made so I’m trying to make what I have already work.
Well, my chameleon does not enjoy being under the mist at all.
Im not sure how the double misthead can be separated it is one single piece. I have a third nozzle on the opposite side in the opposite corner, and I assembled the nozzles in the spaces provided in the enclosure.
I’m strongly considering going to Home Depot and having pieces of PVC cut to put over the screen but I wanted to exhaust other resources first.
I came on here to seek friendly advice :/