HELP, CHAMELEON HAS FALLEN....swollen leg

[Syn]

Well just yesterday in a matter of hours dehydration most likely caused kindey failure in my chameleon and it died. Was perfectly healthy the day before. We just have bad luck, the little guys are so delicate..

 

[JackAttack]

jack isnt little tho..........he's two years old.....jacks poops were normal up until this happened.........white urate with a touch of yellow now and again, nothing major.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Well just yesterday in a matter of hours dehydration most likely caused kindey failure in my chameleon and it died. Was perfectly healthy the day before. We just have bad luck, the little guys are so delicate..

I don't think it's an issue that happened over just 3 hours of time Syn. Although I feel for your loss, I think that might be a bit misinformed.

 

[Docility]

jack isnt little tho..........he's two years old.....jacks poops were normal up until this happened.........white urate with a touch of yellow now and again, nothing major.

I still think auto immune fits, and it doesnt seem like the vet even checked for it. we need our vets to be more objective like actual MD's. not saying its the vets fault, but i have seen animals have something a little wrong with them, and they go to the vet not even 2 weeks later they die due to a misdiagnose, and its sad. Sunlight i natures miracle drug it seems to have helped ocillie so much, and he loves it! i would say just try taking him out side every day. iv been taking ocillie out for 2 hrs a day, and sitting him in a bush. I hope he turns around other than his swollen leg he looks like a normal healthy chameleon =( ill watch the vid, and post back again

 

[Dave Weldon]

well dave,

the vet told me that if this drug doesnt cure him, ( albon for the coccidia) that it is most likely kidney problems. how does that happen in a perfectly healthy cham? just out of nowhere??? she also suggested that perhaps he had gone septic from an infection, and now the infection was in his blood.

Howdy,

My thoughts go back to the original "incident". It isn't very often that a perfectly healthy chameleon falls. The swelling may have been the source of falling rather than the other way around . The relationship between sepsis and coccidia is that if the coccidia count goes high enough, the intestinal lining damage can become the access pathway for an infection (bacterial) that then pushes the system to go septic. Basically a bunch of coccidia-damaged lining can't fight-off other types of infections that get into the system via the coccidia induced damage. Like Eric said, many reptiles can be asymptomatic while lightly infected with coccidia. When something triggers a weakened immune system, the coccidia can go into a runaway condition with populations exploding to the point that the damage requires treatment before things spiral downward to the end. Coccidia often hides in places like bile ducts etc. that makes it more difficult to treat. It is also possible that the coccidia infection made its way into organs whose malfunction could cause the (retained fluids) swelling. I don't think the foot swelling is a direct result of coccidia in the actual leg/foot tissue though.

How did it happen to a perfectly healthy chameleon? I guess it often goes back to eliminating all, real and potential, husbandry issues (lumping in a lot of things here) and then you are sometimes just left with genetics .

 

[JackAttack]

hello all, here is the most recent video of jack

...i want to make it clear that I DID NOT take this video to show people because i think its amusing in ANY way, it took all of me not to help him up as i usually do. i just wanted people to see what he is acting like. this is the reason i had to put him in a super small cage, a fall like this to the bottom of his regular 4ft enclosure could mean death ...........its devastating, as I do not know how to help him. my poor jack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnT-erOrKOw

 

[JackAttack]

I still think auto immune fits, and it doesnt seem like the vet even checked for it. we need our vets to be more objective like actual MD's. not saying its the vets fault, but i have seen animals have something a little wrong with them, and they go to the vet not even 2 weeks later they die due to a misdiagnose, and its sad. Sunlight i natures miracle drug it seems to have helped ocillie so much, and he loves it! i would say just try taking him out side every day. iv been taking ocillie out for 2 hrs a day, and sitting him in a bush. I hope he turns around other than his swollen leg he looks like a normal healthy chameleon =( ill watch the vid, and post back again

i agree, sunlight helps the chams, and jack normally loves it. problem is i live in alberta canada, and it is too cold to bring him outside just yet. the high today was plus 4 ...............i have him on my shoulder a lot, and bring him down to look out the window. he loves this, but i know the glass is filtering out the UV to help him..............

 

[JackAttack]

Howdy,

My thoughts go back to the original "incident". It isn't very often that a perfectly healthy chameleon falls. The swelling may have been the source of falling rather than the other way around . The relationship between sepsis and coccidia is that if the coccidia count goes high enough, the intestinal lining damage can become the access pathway for an infection (bacterial) that then pushes the system to go septic. Basically a bunch of coccidia-damaged lining can't fight-off other types of infections that get into the system via the coccidia induced damage. Like Eric said, many reptiles can be asymptomatic while lightly infected with coccidia. When something triggers a weakened immune system, the coccidia can go into a runaway condition with populations exploding to the point that the damage requires treatment before things spiral downward to the end. Coccidia often hides in places like bile ducts etc. that makes it more difficult to treat. It is also possible that the coccidia infection made its way into organs whose malfunction could cause the (retained fluids) swelling. I don't think the foot swelling is a direct result of coccidia in the actual leg/foot tissue though.

How did it happen to a perfectly healthy chameleon? I guess it often goes back to eliminating all, real and potential, husbandry issues (lumping in a lot of things here) and then you are sometimes just left with genetics .

alright, so what if the coccidia infection made its way into his organs......and they are malfunctioning............im asuming the outcome is not a good one is there even a way to test for that? will the albon take away any other infections he may have as well as the coccidia? or is it only for the parasite......perhaps he needs a stronger drug then.............ugh

 

[JackAttack]

just wondering if anybody had watched the video of jack, and had an ideas on how to make him more comfortable, or stop him from falling so much.....

 

[GooglezNvincent]

hello all, here is the most recent video of jack

...i want to make it clear that I DID NOT take this video to show people because i think its amusing in ANY way, it took all of me not to help him up as i usually do. i just wanted people to see what he is acting like. this is the reason i had to put him in a super small cage, a fall like this to the bottom of his regular 4ft enclosure could mean death ...........its devastating, as I do not know how to help him. my poor jack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnT-erOrKOw

OMG! IM SOOOO SORRY, THAT IS SOOO SAD. I hope you find out exactly what wrong so you can help him. Best of luck!

Edit: i have no idea how to help him. he is favoring that leg so much. this is so sad, idk how you are dealing with it. Stay strong.

 

[Versagirl]

that video is sad. have you taken him to the vet?

 

[GooglezNvincent]

that video is sad. have you taken him to the vet?

Yeah they have, You should read the thread, all of it. It is very informative. But it is really sad i agree. I know you probably dont want to read 11 pages, but i read it all and it help to read from all the senior members and pro's they are very knowledgable. Who knows when your newly found knowledge of this subject can help you.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

it's not that he seems weak - he may be, but more so, he seems uncooridinated, dizzy, out of balance. This flopping around is what I witnessed in my animals when they were hit really bad after baytril. The ones where I stopped baytril got better quickly.

The reason I do not feel a parasite is the problem is his condition - he looks great. I have not seen a protozoan infection do significant enough damage to cause systemic problems BEFORE causing so much intestinal damage that the chameleon was skinny, sickly and already losing much weight.

I woudl have expected him to be a lot skinnier, and a lot less healthy loking, before it caused the foot problems.

 

[JackAttack]

i agree, he does seem disoriented for sure in the latest video of him, but i can say that in my opinion, his grip seems stronger, but its as though it doesnt matter. he still just lays on the branches, as though he has no strength to do anything. he falls like that when he trys to move to quickly. he only had 4 doses of the baytril before i read your post eric, and stopped it, and they were small doses. im hoping that its not the cause, but perhaps the albon is affecting that? his legs are still really swollen, and it makes it hard to hang on to things. on a happier note........jack ate 4 horned worms today, 1` large and 3 small, on his own accord. its the first time he's eaten anything without me forcing it in 6 days...........he also had a poop yesterday, and the urate was comepletely white, but with a lot of fluid around it ( vet said he'd pee out what he didnt need of the injected fluid) and the two brown pieces were not completely mush like they have been, they were still really soft and long, but not liquid........its good to see him eat, but then 10 seconds later he falls of his branch, so frustrating and sad.....especially because prior to the fall i had NO indication that there was any sort of problem, i am with jack daily, and he is a wanderer and came out often, and i never noticed anything out of the ordinary. if my roomate hadnt told me that he had fallen, i never would have known........

thank you all for all of your positive comments, i hope that jack recovers from this, whatever it may be.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

He eats on his own = very good.

I seriously do not think a protozoan infection that results in serious enough damage to the intestines would leave him having somewhat normal stools. Blood and pus is what I have seen when they get really far gone.

If he's eating, chances are good. Keep nutrition balanced, and keep him hydrated, and things should level out - if they were out of balance. Hard to do anything but watch.

 

[JackAttack]

Howdy,

You are right about the feet/ankle/leg swelling. It is especially noticeable in the #3 photo . I wonder about some kind of systemic infection or maybe even organ (kidney?) failure .

if it is a systemic infection, how can that be treated??? also, ive had some other opinions in that it could be something pinched in his spine.....causing spinal fluid to leak out and build up. it seems like a posibility, considering this all started from a fall. how could the vet test for this? do you all think this could be the problem??? or am i grasping at dreams here.....

 

[Dave Weldon]

if it is a systemic infection, how can that be treated???....

Howdy,

I think a blood test would show an elevated white blood cell count if it was an infection. If there is a high WBC then a sensitivity test would show what drug to use to treat that infection.

 

[Docility]

Howdy,

I think a blood test would show an elevated white blood cell count if it was an infection. If there is a high WBC then a sensitivity test would show what drug to use to treat that infection.

i talked to him, and his vet for some reason doesn't want to do a blood test saying there isn't enough blood in him to do one!?

im curious about why she thinks that.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

A blood test is a way to prove or disproce a systemic infection. It can also tell if there is too much of something in the blood, signaling some sort of identifiable problem. It seems strange to me that two types of antibiotics, as well as a sulfa drug, were given without knowing if the problems were for certain caused by the pathogens targeted.

Medication is not a safe thing with these animals - if needed, use them, but don't use them unless you are pretty certain they need them.

 

[leid]

i talked to him, and his vet for some reason doesn't want to do a blood test saying there isn't enough blood in him to do one!?

It seems strange to me that two types of antibiotics, as well as a sulfa drug, were given without knowing if the problems were for certain caused by the pathogens targeted.

Get another vet.