Help, hatchling chameleon ate too large of a cricket?!

[Flickmycham]

I have had a hatchling panther chameleon for about a week now, he’s probably a couple weeks old maybe a month.
Was feeding a cricket to him that I thought would be an okay size (was just the size of the width of his head). He let it sit in his mouth for a bit and then tried to work it down his throat. Problem is I don’t think it went all the way down his throat yet, it’s been 3.5 hours now. I think I see a bit of the cricket sticking out the side of his throat. He doesn’t seem stressed nor having trouble breathing. I witnessed him poop once about 2 hours in this experience and then an hour later he peed? Only a tad bit of white came out. They don’t digest this quick so they? Now he’s sitting on his basking branch closing his eyes, but this is usually the time he seems to go to bed..

Going to try to attach pictures somehow. I attached a photo from yesterday so it’s easier for you to gauge his size.

Thanks ahead of time for any advice

 

[Beman]

baby will hopefully either get it down or throw it back up. Really want to be feeding tiny feeders. Pinheads and fruitflies and tons of them.
Needs to be able to access them on its own during the day anytime it wants.

Is baby leaving its eyes closed?

 

[Flickmycham]

baby will hopefully either get it down or throw it back up. Really want to be feeding tiny feeders. Pinheads and fruitflies and tons of them.
Needs to be able to access them on its own during the day anytime it wants.

Is baby leaving its eyes closed?

Yes definitely, I understand and will only be feeding him fruit flies until I get some pinhead crickets!!
When I opened his enclosure he opened his eyes, I got him to walk on my finger so I could feel if there is something stuck in his throat. Glad to say I didn’t physically feel anything. Here’s a new pic of what he’s up to.
Thanks so much for the response!
Any guesses as to how old my baby is or gender?

 

[Beman]

Yes definitely, I understand and will only be feeding him fruit flies until I get some pinhead crickets!!
When I opened his enclosure he opened his eyes, I got him to walk on my finger so I could feel if there is something stuck in his throat. Glad to say I didn’t physically feel anything. Here’s a new pic of what he’s up to.
Thanks so much for the response!
Any guesses as to how old my baby is or gender?

Your welcome. So baby should not be closing it’s eyes during the day. It is a sign that something is wrong.
Can you post a picture of your enclosure including the lights on top and of the supplements your using along with how your using them?

 

[MissSkittles]

Your chameleon shouldn’t have it’s eyes closed at all during the day. Something must be off. We can help you to figure it out and make sure you have everything perfect for your little cutie…just need you to answer the following questions.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Beman]

Your chameleon shouldn’t have it’s eyes closed at all during the day. Something must be off. We can help you to figure it out and make sure you have everything perfect for your little cutie…just need you to answer the following questions.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

Thank you I got off the computer. Will you keep an eye on this thread too? I have a migraine and am going to stay offline tonight. I just wanted to check back in on this one.

 

[Flickmycham]

Your chameleon shouldn’t have it’s eyes closed at all during the day. Something must be off. We can help you to figure it out and make sure you have everything perfect for your little cutie…just need you to answer the following questions.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

•Panther ambilobe hatchling chameleon. Unsure of sex. I think he’s super young (I did order a hatchling). Got him July 14th 2021, so last Wednesday.
•I’ve handled him 4 times so far, he loves to walk on my fingers and explore
•All fruit flies until today when I tried to feed him a small cricket. He eats about 15 fruit flies daily I almost constantly have food available to him, roaming fruit flies in his enclosure. Only time theres not food in there is first thing in the morning and sometimes in the late afternoon if he ate all of them.
•I use a spray mist bottle (it has a nice mist). I spray for a minute or two 3-5 times daily, depending on the humidity level and if he looks like he’s wanting to drink (the water seems to dry up really fast). Also was spraying more because he was shedding and still has some left over skin around his neck. I see him drink in the morning and early afternoon.
•Pure calcium on all the feeders without Vit D. I have sprinkled Repashy multivitamin with low Vit D for the second and third day I had him (used the multivitamin two days in a row because I seen him rolling his one eye and rubbing it on my hand and read vitamin A can help). He did not do anymore of the eye rolling/rubbing until today I seen he rubbed his eyes one time on a limb and did a bit of rolling, but it doesn’t seem to be a consistent thing.
•His poop looks black with white on the end and a tiny bit of orange in there between? Has been going every day, today he pooped once and then an hour or so later only pee came out (this was after this whole cricket experience). Has never been tested for parasites.
•He is in a tall glass aquarium (12”x18”x12”) top is screen
•I use a compact exoterra 100 5.0 tropical UVB bulb 15 watt. Heating I use a incandescent 40 watt light bulb but am about to bump it up to 50 watt because the little thing tries to get closer to the heat (doesn’t really feel that hot) even though the temperature in the enclosure is at 80 degrees F. I turn the lights on at 9 am and turn the basking light off at 7 pm and leave the uvb on for another hour.
•Ambient temp is from 70-80F. Basking spot is 80F-83F. Nighttime it doesn’t get below 70F because it’s been so warm and humid in my area the last week. I have a combination thermometer and hydrometer.
•Humidity ranges from 60-80% although one very humid night it did get to 84%. I have a live plant in there and damp paper towels to help with the humidity.
•I can’t remember the exact name of the vine I have in the enclosure but it was on the approved plant list on this site.
•The enclosure sits about 3.5 feet from the floor on a table, one side is facing outside (he loves to look out there). Not a high traffic area, it is in the back middle of my bedroom next to a window.
•I am located in mid-Michigan!

Current problem: hatchling ate probably too large of a feeder, what are the dangers, warning signs the animal is having difficulty, emergency recommendations if it came to that. Currently I think the situation resolved itself, as I don’t see the bulge in his throat that I photographed in the picture? Btw do you think that the bulge was the cricket still in his throat?? Shouldn’t he have been thrown it up by then because it had already been 3 hours?
Any other comments/recommendations are very welcome. Thank you

 

[Flickmycham]

I am also curious as to why he shuts his eyes so early though I did read this is kind of common? He’ll be hunting and active all day but once 5 pm rolls around he’s passed out for the night

 

[Flickmycham]

Your welcome. So baby should not be closing it’s eyes during the day. It is a sign that something is wrong.
Can you post a picture of your enclosure including the lights on top and of the supplements your using along with how your using them?

Your welcome. So baby should not be closing it’s eyes during the day. It is a sign that something is wrong.
Can you post a picture of your enclosure including the lights on top and of the supplements your using along with how your using them?

He tends to close his eyes around 5 pm. All day until then he is active; hunting, exploring, gazing outside or basking. I wasn’t too concerned about this because I read somewhere that some chameleons go to bed after the prime daylight hours? Do hatchling chameleons sleep more?

 

[TayloredExotics]

Hopefully someone else will add more feedback, this is just some of the major things
•Panther ambilobe hatchling chameleon. Unsure of sex. I think he’s super young (I did order a hatchling). Got him July 14th 2021, so last Wednesday.

Your baby is very young... Probably a month or less. They are very fragile at this age, unfortunately. It was irresponsible of whoever you bought from to even offer 'hatchlings' much less ship one. Good luck, I hope it survives! (PS: who was the supplier? I'm guessing Backwater, TortoiseTown, or Underground...)

•I’ve handled him 4 times so far, he loves to walk on my fingers and explore

Due to age, I'd recommend less handling, especially until you can easily identify stress behaviors

•All fruit flies until today when I tried to feed him a small cricket. He eats about 15 fruit flies daily I almost constantly have food available to him, roaming fruit flies in his enclosure. Only time theres not food in there is first thing in the morning and sometimes in the late afternoon if he ate all of them.

You want there to be constant access to food for babies this young. You've probably read in other threads that '10-15 appropriately sized feeders' is adaquate; however, that is the recommendation for a well started 3+ months old. 15 fruit flies is far too few. You could try adding a piece of fruit to get the flies to congregate in one area so baby doesn't have to try so hard to find food. Stick with things about that size; bean beetles, rice flour beetles/larvae, newly hatched red runner roaches/silkworms, or tiny Kenyan roaches would also be appropriately sized alternatives

•I use a spray mist bottle (it has a nice mist). I spray for a minute or two 3-5 times daily, depending on the humidity level and if he looks like he’s wanting to drink (the water seems to dry up really fast). Also was spraying more because he was shedding and still has some left over skin around his neck. I see him drink in the morning and early afternoon.

Chameleons are dry shedders, so you spraying is making it more difficult to shed. However, hydration is important and makes shedding easier. I'd add a dripper; if your chameleon is thirsty often when you most, there's a good chance it is staying dehydrated. In any animal this can cause kidney and other organ damage; in a baby this small it may cause death

•Pure calcium on all the feeders without Vit D. I have sprinkled Repashy multivitamin with low Vit D for the second and third day I had him (used the multivitamin two days in a row because I seen him rolling his one eye and rubbing it on my hand and read vitamin A can help). He did not do anymore of the eye rolling/rubbing until today I seen he rubbed his eyes one time on a limb and did a bit of rolling, but it doesn’t seem to be a consistent thing.

Babies do not need to be supplemented for at least the first month, and only lightly for the next few. Your schedule of daily plain calcium, 2x a months for a multivitamin containing D3 would be great for a 3+ months old (as long as you only do the multivitamin 2x/month, regardless of eye rubbing), but I'd cut it down for now. Try plain calcium only 2 days a week, and the D3 and multivitamin only 1x a month for now. Over supplementation WILL kill your baby. Also bad is when you overdose on fat soluble vitamins and suffer for months

•His poop looks black with white on the end and a tiny bit of orange in there between? Has been going every day, today he pooped once and then an hour or so later only pee came out (this was after this whole cricket experience). Has never been tested for parasites.

Never a bad idea to test for parasites, but I'd wait to actually bring it anywhere since it is so young. A vet might let you just bring in fecal samples. I'd say getting tested might be a good idea; if your breeder was sketchy enough to send one so young who knows what other practices they have. Orange urates can indicate dehydration; add a dripper

•He is in a tall glass aquarium (12”x18”x12”) top is screen

Great for humidity for a baby, however, just know you will need to upgrade when older. Make sure your cham is getting good airflow even in the tank, though!

•I use a compact exoterra 100 5.0 tropical UVB bulb 15 watt. Heating I use a incandescent 40 watt light bulb but am about to bump it up to 50 watt because the little thing tries to get closer to the heat (doesn’t really feel that hot) even though the temperature in the enclosure is at 80 degrees F. I turn the lights on at 9 am and turn the basking light off at 7 pm and leave the uvb on for another hour.

Several things to address:
You NEED a T5 (best) or T8 (can work, with care) linear UVB bulb. This is very important as your baby is developing it's entire skeleton; the compact bulbs are inadequate, even when used with the sideways reflector lamp they were designed for. There is a very narrow band where they put out enough UVB without providing so much they cause eye damage.

BASKING temp should be 80°; your cham needs to be able to access a cooler area as well. Try for 65-70 cool area (which should be at least half the enclosure). Make sure it's not too warm anywhere baby can reach (including if it is screen walking); thermal burns happen quickly, and chams don't realize they need to move away from the heat source

Lights should be on for 12 hours; so, 7 AM to 7 PM, 9 AM to 9 PM, etc. You can buy an outlet timer if that makes it easier, they only cost $3-10 usually

•Ambient temp is from 70-80F. Basking spot is 80F-83F. Nighttime it doesn’t get below 70F because it’s been so warm and humid in my area the last week. I have a combination thermometer and hydrometer.

Night temps can be lower; in fact your baby will do better if you can get them down to 65. I've had babies survive consecutive nights in the mid 40s (but obviously don't recommend that). Try to get the ambient temp a bit lower if possible. Basking temp is fine, but try
not to let it get any warmer

•Humidity ranges from 60-80% although one very humid night it did get to 84%. I have a live plant in there and damp paper towels to help with the humidity.

Fine for a hatchling; try to get it closer to 100% at night. You'll want daytime humidity lower as it gets older, but that's fine for now

•I can’t remember the exact name of the vine I have in the enclosure but it was on the approved plant list on this site.

Good; more foliage will also help baby feel safer and less stressed, as well as make it easier to maintain humidity. Pothos/Tradescantia are common and easy to keep happy. Consider a plant light (or any high lumen 5000-6500k led light) for when you have a larger enclosure

•The enclosure sits about 3.5 feet from the floor on a table, one side is facing outside (he loves to look out there). Not a high traffic area, it is in the back middle of my bedroom next to a window.

Nice. Being higher/taller will make baby feel safer and less stressed

•I am located in mid-Michigan!

Sweet, I'm from MI originally

Current problem: hatchling ate probably too large of a feeder, what are the dangers, warning signs the animal is having difficulty, emergency recommendations if it came to that. Currently I think the situation resolved itself, as I don’t see the bulge in his throat that I photographed in the picture? Btw do you think that the bulge was the cricket still in his throat?? Shouldn’t he have been thrown it up by then because it had already been 3 hours?

If baby hasn't spit it out or choked to death by now, it's fine. But maybe stick with smaller feeders for another month or two. Recommended feeder size is no longer than the width between your cham's eyes

Any other comments/recommendations are very welcome. Thank you

I hope you take all the suggestions seriously, but the lights/supplements are the most important thing right now. Improper setup of these will cause death or disfigurement quickly

Good luck

 

[TayloredExotics]

I am also curious as to why he shuts his eyes so early though I did read this is kind of common? He’ll be hunting and active all day but once 5 pm rolls around he’s passed out for the night

This is a stress sign and a bad indicator. It may simply be because a lot has happened to such a relatively young cham, or it can be a sign of illness. Especially since you said lights aren't even on for a full 12 hours, your baby should not be trying to sleep early.

 

[Flickmycham]

Hopefully someone else will add more feedback, this is just some of the major things
•Panther ambilobe hatchling chameleon. Unsure of sex. I think he’s super young (I did order a hatchling). Got him July 14th 2021, so last Wednesday.

Your baby is very young... Probably a month or less. They are very fragile at this age, unfortunately. It was irresponsible of whoever you bought from to even offer 'hatchlings' much less ship one. Good luck, I hope it survives! (PS: who was the supplier? I'm guessing Backwater, TortoiseTown, or Underground...)

•I’ve handled him 4 times so far, he loves to walk on my fingers and explore

Due to age, I'd recommend less handling, especially until you can easily identify stress behaviors

•All fruit flies until today when I tried to feed him a small cricket. He eats about 15 fruit flies daily I almost constantly have food available to him, roaming fruit flies in his enclosure. Only time theres not food in there is first thing in the morning and sometimes in the late afternoon if he ate all of them.

You want there to be constant access to food for babies this young. You've probably read in other threads that '10-15 appropriately sized feeders' is adaquate; however, that is the recommendation for a well started 3+ months old. 15 fruit flies is far too few. You could try adding a piece of fruit to get the flies to congregate in one area so baby doesn't have to try so hard to find food. Stick with things about that size; bean beetles, rice flour beetles/larvae, newly hatched red runner roaches/silkworms, or tiny Kenyan roaches would also be appropriately sized alternatives

•I use a spray mist bottle (it has a nice mist). I spray for a minute or two 3-5 times daily, depending on the humidity level and if he looks like he’s wanting to drink (the water seems to dry up really fast). Also was spraying more because he was shedding and still has some left over skin around his neck. I see him drink in the morning and early afternoon.

Chameleons are dry shedders, so you spraying is making it more difficult to shed. However, hydration is important and makes shedding easier. I'd add a dripper; if your chameleon is thirsty often when you most, there's a good chance it is staying dehydrated. In any animal this can cause kidney and other organ damage; in a baby this small it may cause death

•Pure calcium on all the feeders without Vit D. I have sprinkled Repashy multivitamin with low Vit D for the second and third day I had him (used the multivitamin two days in a row because I seen him rolling his one eye and rubbing it on my hand and read vitamin A can help). He did not do anymore of the eye rolling/rubbing until today I seen he rubbed his eyes one time on a limb and did a bit of rolling, but it doesn’t seem to be a consistent thing.

Babies do not need to be supplemented for at least the first month, and only lightly for the next few. Your schedule of daily plain calcium, 2x a months for a multivitamin containing D3 would be great for a 3+ months old (as long as you only do the multivitamin 2x/month, regardless of eye rubbing), but I'd cut it down for now. Try plain calcium only 2 days a week, and the D3 and multivitamin only 1x a month for now. Over supplementation WILL kill your baby. Also bad is when you overdose on fat soluble vitamins and suffer for months

•His poop looks black with white on the end and a tiny bit of orange in there between? Has been going every day, today he pooped once and then an hour or so later only pee came out (this was after this whole cricket experience). Has never been tested for parasites.

Never a bad idea to test for parasites, but I'd wait to actually bring it anywhere since it is so young. A vet might let you just bring in fecal samples. I'd say getting tested might be a good idea; if your breeder was sketchy enough to send one so young who knows what other practices they have. Orange urates can indicate dehydration; add a dripper

•He is in a tall glass aquarium (12”x18”x12”) top is screen

Great for humidity for a baby, however, just know you will need to upgrade when older. Make sure your cham is getting good airflow even in the tank, though!

•I use a compact exoterra 100 5.0 tropical UVB bulb 15 watt. Heating I use a incandescent 40 watt light bulb but am about to bump it up to 50 watt because the little thing tries to get closer to the heat (doesn’t really feel that hot) even though the temperature in the enclosure is at 80 degrees F. I turn the lights on at 9 am and turn the basking light off at 7 pm and leave the uvb on for another hour.

Several things to address:
You NEED a T5 (best) or T8 (can work, with care) linear UVB bulb. This is very important as your baby is developing it's entire skeleton; the compact bulbs are inadequate, even when used with the sideways reflector lamp they were designed for. There is a very narrow band where they put out enough UVB without providing so much they cause eye damage.

BASKING temp should be 80°; your cham needs to be able to access a cooler area as well. Try for 65-70 cool area (which should be at least half the enclosure). Make sure it's not too warm anywhere baby can reach (including if it is screen walking); thermal burns happen quickly, and chams don't realize they need to move away from the heat source

Lights should be on for 12 hours; so, 7 AM to 7 PM, 9 AM to 9 PM, etc. You can buy an outlet timer if that makes it easier, they only cost $3-10 usually

•Ambient temp is from 70-80F. Basking spot is 80F-83F. Nighttime it doesn’t get below 70F because it’s been so warm and humid in my area the last week. I have a combination thermometer and hydrometer.

Night temps can be lower; in fact your baby will do better if you can get them down to 65. I've had babies survive consecutive nights in the mid 40s (but obviously don't recommend that). Try to get the ambient temp a bit lower if possible. Basking temp is fine, but try
not to let it get any warmer

•Humidity ranges from 60-80% although one very humid night it did get to 84%. I have a live plant in there and damp paper towels to help with the humidity.

Fine for a hatchling; try to get it closer to 100% at night. You'll want daytime humidity lower as it gets older, but that's fine for now

•I can’t remember the exact name of the vine I have in the enclosure but it was on the approved plant list on this site.

Good; more foliage will also help baby feel safer and less stressed, as well as make it easier to maintain humidity. Pothos/Tradescantia are common and easy to keep happy. Consider a plant light (or any high lumen 5000-6500k led light) for when you have a larger enclosure

•The enclosure sits about 3.5 feet from the floor on a table, one side is facing outside (he loves to look out there). Not a high traffic area, it is in the back middle of my bedroom next to a window.

Nice. Being higher/taller will make baby feel safer and less stressed

•I am located in mid-Michigan!

Sweet, I'm from MI originally

Current problem: hatchling ate probably too large of a feeder, what are the dangers, warning signs the animal is having difficulty, emergency recommendations if it came to that. Currently I think the situation resolved itself, as I don’t see the bulge in his throat that I photographed in the picture? Btw do you think that the bulge was the cricket still in his throat?? Shouldn’t he have been thrown it up by then because it had already been 3 hours?

If baby hasn't spit it out or choked to death by now, it's fine. But maybe stick with smaller feeders for another month or two. Recommended feeder size is no longer than the width between your cham's eyes

Any other comments/recommendations are very welcome. Thank you

I hope you take all the suggestions seriously, but the lights/supplements are the most important thing right now. Improper setup of these will cause death or disfigurement quickly

Good luck

I absolutely will and am taking your suggestions seriously I really appreciate you taking the time to go through this with me. It’s good to know there is people that are willing to give valuable advice.
Thank you again

 

[Beman]

I absolutely will and am taking your suggestions seriously I really appreciate you taking the time to go through this with me. It’s good to know there is people that are willing to give valuable advice.
Thank you again

Follow all the info they gave you. And start reading this husbandry program including all the modules https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

UVB lighting correction is the priority and tiny feeders.