Help please

[Rileyheacock]

While I’ve given you a lot of info to digest, there is even more to tell! We haven’t even started on the egg laying process. I don’t want to overwhelm you right now though. Make the needed changes and get your pretty girl all set up properly first. Once that is all done, then let us know that you’re ready and we’ll go over all of the egg stuff. Keep asking whatever questions you have and sharing your progress. The very best part of all of this is seeing all of the improvements you make for your chameleon and your growth into a skilled keeper.

Hi! I have got her a new cage and it is all set up. I will attach a picture. I also will attach a picture of this spot she has been having on her that is concerning me. It happens when she stretches out or turns and only on this one side. Her cage has been 83 degrees at her basking spot. Is that okay? After these questions I am ready for the information for all the egg stuff!

 

[Rileyheacock]

Hi! I have got her a new cage and it is all set up. I will attach a picture. I also will attach a picture of this spot she has been having on her that is concerning me. It happens when she stretches out or turns and only on this one side. Her cage has been 83 degrees at her basking spot. Is that okay? After these questions I am ready for the information for all the egg stuff!

Also, she has been eating her organic fertilizer.

 

[Beman]

Hi! I have got her a new cage and it is all set up. I will attach a picture. I also will attach a picture of this spot she has been having on her that is concerning me. It happens when she stretches out or turns and only on this one side. Her cage has been 83 degrees at her basking spot. Is that okay? After these questions I am ready for the information for all the egg stuff!

Hi there. Are you talking about the slight discoloration on her side? It could be a slight thermal burn. What bulb strength are you using? I see two screw in bulbs what are these two? Did you get the long linear UVB bulb? You want basking to be 78-80 max at the branch for her. The best way to get an accurate reading is with a temp gauge that has a probe. You hook the probe in on the basking branch below the heat fixture.
For her cage. You do not want to set this on the floor. It will stress her out not being higher in the room than you are. Also you risk water damage to your floor.

Also, she has been eating her organic fertilizer.

Is this the soil in her pots? If so you want to cover her soil in the pots with river rock. 1inch or larger. They sell this at craft stores in the floral section. Smooth rock that is too large for her to eat but putting a good layer on top of the soil will keep her out of it.

 

[Rileyheacock]

Hi there. Are you talking about the slight discoloration on her side? It could be a slight thermal burn. What bulb strength are you using? I see two screw in bulbs what are these two? Did you get the long linear UVB bulb? You want basking to be 78-80 max at the branch for her. The best way to get an accurate reading is with a temp gauge that has a probe. You hook the probe in on the basking branch below the heat fixture.
For her cage. You do not want to set this on the floor. It will stress her out not being higher in the room than you are. Also you risk water damage to your floor.

Is this the soil in her pots? If so you want to cover her soil in the pots with river rock. 1inch or larger. They sell this at craft stores in the floral section. Smooth rock that is too large for her to eat but putting a good layer on top of the soil will keep her out of it.

Is it toxic for her to eat it?
I ordered the linear uvb light but still waiting for it to come in. The other bulb is like a 160 watt or so. I also have one that is only like a 60 watt but it was too cold. She seems to be fine under it. The highest it gets in her basking area is 83 and it fluctuates. I just didn’t know if I need a new bulb and what watt.
She seems to be fine on the floor. Most of the time I am sitting down on my bed or floor so she doesn’t see me taller than her. The problem is that I don’t have something to put it in that is big enough because the bottom pushes up if it’s a little too small. I have been also making sure there is no water at the bottom of the cage. The plants are absorbing the water and I have not noticed any water leak. Or any water at the bottom.
Lastly:
Her side spot is that line that looks like it is sticking out of her side. I can circle it and send the photo again if that will make it easier for you to see. Her colors are like that when I am looking at her and she is nervous but then she goes back to her normal color so I do not believe it is any burn.
Could you send the link for the new temp gauge you use?

 

[Beman]

Is it toxic for her to eat it?
I ordered the linear uvb light but still waiting for it to come in. The other bulb is like a 160 watt or so. I also have one that is only like a 60 watt but it was too cold. She seems to be fine under it. The highest it gets in her basking area is 83 and it fluctuates. I just didn’t know if I need a new bulb and what watt.
She seems to be fine on the floor. Most of the time I am sitting down on my bed or floor so she doesn’t see me taller than her. The problem is that I don’t have something to put it in that is big enough because the bottom pushes up if it’s a little too small. I have been also making sure there is no water at the bottom of the cage. The plants are absorbing the water and I have not noticed any water leak. Or any water at the bottom.
Lastly:
Her side spot is that line that looks like it is sticking out of her side. I can circle it and send the photo again if that will make it easier for you to see. Her colors are like that when I am looking at her and she is nervous but then she goes back to her normal color so I do not believe it is any burn.
Could you send the link for the new temp gauge you use?

Her eating the soil can cause an impaction which would require surgery. Or if she is eating actual fertilizer beads in the soil this can be toxic.

160 watt is way too strong... Most typically you would use a 60-75 watt max bulb strength. I do not think you are getting accurate temp readings at the basking branch. Zoomed makes a low cost gauge with probe for temp. Max temp at the branch with a probe would be 76-78 for a female. Where they rise up is going to be hotter running more like 78-80 which is the max heat a female should be getting.

Being low will eventually become an issue. It is for all chameleons because they are arboreal and prefer to be higher than everything else. It may not seem like an issue right now but as she matures it can cause unwanted stress for her. I had to put a board that was larger than my cage size on my table since it is an odd size. I believe zoomed makes a table as well that is sized for these cages.

So for her side. I can see that she does have a supplement issue. The little bumps under the skin is a sign of this. Making sure her supplementation is correct will slowly resolve those bumps your seeing. Also having the correct UVB. There could have been a fracture to the rib along that line your looking at as well. Looking back through your husbandry the over supplementation of D3 can make their bones weak along with causing other issues. Then you add the lack of proper UVB and this also contributes to weak and brittle bones.

 

[Kodyf]

@Beman is giving all the info you need for this topic I think he addressed everything needed. The only thing I recommend is I would place your cage higher on a stand preferably 2ft above the ground and set up a drain pan for the draining water. Chameleons like to be a little higher up it gives them a sense of security and lowers stress levels.

 

[Kodyf]

Hi there. Are you talking about the slight discoloration on her side? It could be a slight thermal burn. What bulb strength are you using? I see two screw in bulbs what are these two? Did you get the long linear UVB bulb? You want basking to be 78-80 max at the branch for her. The best way to get an accurate reading is with a temp gauge that has a probe. You hook the probe in on the basking branch below the heat fixture.
For her cage. You do not want to set this on the floor. It will stress her out not being higher in the room than you are. Also you risk water damage to your floor.

Is this the soil in her pots? If so you want to cover her soil in the pots with river rock. 1inch or larger. They sell this at craft stores in the floral section. Smooth rock that is too large for her to eat but putting a good layer on top of the soil will keep her out of it.

Also @Beman I think this person is talking about the ribs that are poking out a bit in these pictures they look a bit off. They said she fell and said the mark is only on one side. I think they are asking if it looks like the ribs could be broken, does it look that way to you?

 

[Kodyf]

I see you already replied now @Beman and acknowledged the ribs. what should @Rileyheacock do if those ribs are broken

 

[MissSkittles]

I am ready for the information for all the egg stuff!

Ok! I’m going to start this with your cutie developing her big girl colors, which signal her first receptive period. She’ll start looking super pretty and starting to show some teal and yellow/orange colors and patterns. Each lady is different and while some show primarily colors, some will show primarily patterns. I had one of each. (Pardon the fake plants - I was new and still learning)

Along with this, they’ll also become very restless and almost endlessly roam up, down and all around their enclosure in their futile hunt for a boy. Some girls might have a decrease in appetite. This can last for a couple to few weeks. This is the time that you should have your lay bin prepared and in place. Once it ends, she’ll gradually start gaining weight and looking plump and maybe even show a lump or two above her back leg. Anywhere from about 30 or so days from the end of the receptive period, she may be ready to lay eggs. Her colors usually darken, and again, each girl is different. My one girl, only showed darker spots while the other darkens so that her patterns blur together.
Her appetite and activity levels may decrease as her eggs take up space in her belly. I like to have my light sheet ready and already partially attached to the enclosure, so that when it’s time, I can just pull and secure the one end quickly and quietly. Before you know it, one morning she won’t be in her usual basking spot and you’ll find her starting to dig in her bin. If she chooses somewhere else, like a plant pot, that’s fine - it’s her choice, not ours. Cover just the lower half of the enclosure so that she can’t see anyone. If she does see anyone watching her, she may stop digging and risks for becoming eggbound increase. I make little peek holes in my cover sheet, so I can peek and monitor without her seeing me. Some use cameras. Don’t worry about feeding her. If you don’t have an automatic misting system, you can set up a dripper (just not above the bin) or even just put some ice cubes on the screen top.
She may dig a few spots until she likes one. She’ll dig down to the bottom and it’s usually against a side. Then she’ll turn around and lay her eggs. When done, she’ll carefully cover all the holes she made and when satisfied, will return to her usual basking spot, looking much thinner and very dirty. The whole process usually takes a couple of days and she may sleep in her tunnel. Not all do that though. Once she’s done, you’ll want to feed and hydrate her very well for the next 2-3 days. Hornworms and silkworms are great feeders at this time. At some point you’ll want to remove the eggs and count them. Hopefully there’s less than 30. Then you are going to start her on the regimen that will hopefully reduce her egg production. You’ll feed her 3-4 appropriately sized feeders, 3 days a week (plus treats). Make sure to keep her basking temp no higher than 80. It may take a cycle or two to start working. The goal is to reduce her egg production so that she is laying small clutches of 20 or less eggs, and not laying 3-4 times a year. What my girls did, was both had several receptive periods, and even gained weight and became plump, but they never laid any eggs. One stopped all laying for three years (until she passed). The other was laying once a year, but I believe it was her sneaking peeks at my male that triggered her. He passed away last year and she skipped her ‘usual’ laying. I have a new male that unfortunately I couldn’t prevent her from seeing recently, so it’ll be interesting if she lays this year. Also of note, is that either the receptive periods stopped completely or they weakened so much that I didn’t see any changes. My girl who went three years did eventually lose most of her colors over time, but that too may have been from her being sick. My other girl is still gorgeous with her dark patterns.
The lay bin - it’s pretty easy to make a good lay bin. I found that a larger bin is preferred...at least 12x12” wide and long. Deep is good too. This is what my girls like.

Drill some tiny holes in the bottom so excess water can drain. Fill to about 5-6” deep with washed play sand. Provide a couple of stable ways in/out. When they are close to laying, you need to make sure that all of the sand is moist enough to hold a tunnel without collapsing. I try to hide the bin in the back of the enclosure and behind plant cover so they feel more private and safe. However, I have found that there is a preferred poo spot and avoiding that is best. When doing your daily spot checks, peek in the bin for poo and remove it.

Signs of a problem - Generally, as long as your husbandry is as perfect as possible, the risks of complications or problems laying eggs is greatly reduced. Always be alert though. If she is staying low in the enclosure/not basking and/or lethargic, dropping eggs randomly, any blood from anywhere, anything sticking out from vent, not eating/drinking, eyes closed during the day or anything that you just feel isn’t right…don’t delay in getting veterinary care. Another potential problem is she is trying digging in various spots, but not settling on one. This was how I learned just how fussy they can be about having a lay bin that meets their standards. My girl was in a bioactive enclosure - the whole floor was a giant lay bin! She spent a week digging everywhere (even the faux wall) and not liking anywhere. I even tried a smaller and shallow bin of sand. Desperate, I put her old lay bin in (the one in the pic) and she got down to business.
Do ask if you’ve got any questions.

 

[Beman]

I see you already replied now @Beman and acknowledged the ribs. what should @Rileyheacock do if those ribs are broken

You can not do anything for broken ribs. They will gradually heal on their own. Providing the correct supplementation and UVB will start reversing the MBD that has begun this in turn will slowly add the calcium back to the bones so they become strong. Right now the bones are going to be frail. Chams in this condition should not be handled as a simple accident can cause major risk do to their weakened state.

 

[Rileyheacock]

Her eating the soil can cause an impaction which would require surgery. Or if she is eating actual fertilizer beads in the soil this can be toxic.

160 watt is way too strong... Most typically you would use a 60-75 watt max bulb strength. I do not think you are getting accurate temp readings at the basking branch. Zoomed makes a low cost gauge with probe for temp. Max temp at the branch with a probe would be 76-78 for a female. Where they rise up is going to be hotter running more like 78-80 which is the max heat a female should be getting.

Being low will eventually become an issue. It is for all chameleons because they are arboreal and prefer to be higher than everything else. It may not seem like an issue right now but as she matures it can cause unwanted stress for her. I had to put a board that was larger than my cage size on my table since it is an odd size. I believe zoomed makes a table as well that is sized for these cages.

So for her side. I can see that she does have a supplement issue. The little bumps under the skin is a sign of this. Making sure her supplementation is correct will slowly resolve those bumps your seeing. Also having the correct UVB. There could have been a fracture to the rib along that line your looking at as well. Looking back through your husbandry the over supplementation of D3 can make their bones weak along with causing other issues. Then you add the lack of proper UVB and this also contributes to weak and brittle bones.

Are these options good?

 

[Rileyheacock]

Are these options good?

I will also work on getting the cage off the floor.

I have stopped with the d3 right after everyone told me about it and I’m just giving regular calcium. If she does have a broken or fractured rib what should I do.

 

[Rileyheacock]

I will also work on getting the cage off the floor.

I have stopped with the d3 right after everyone told me about it and I’m just giving regular calcium. If she does have a broken or fractured rib what should I do.

Sorry I just realized you answered the question about the ribs

 

[Rileyheacock]

Ok! I’m going to start this with your cutie developing her big girl colors, which signal her first receptive period. She’ll start looking super pretty and starting to show some teal and yellow/orange colors and patterns. Each lady is different and while some show primarily colors, some will show primarily patterns. I had one of each. (Pardon the fake plants - I was new and still learning)View attachment 349002
View attachment 349001
Along with this, they’ll also become very restless and almost endlessly roam up, down and all around their enclosure in their futile hunt for a boy. Some girls might have a decrease in appetite. This can last for a couple to few weeks. This is the time that you should have your lay bin prepared and in place. Once it ends, she’ll gradually start gaining weight and looking plump and maybe even show a lump or two above her back leg. Anywhere from about 30 or so days from the end of the receptive period, she may be ready to lay eggs. Her colors usually darken, and again, each girl is different. My one girl, only showed darker spots while the other darkens so that her patterns blur together. View attachment 349003View attachment 349004
Her appetite and activity levels may decrease as her eggs take up space in her belly. I like to have my light sheet ready and already partially attached to the enclosure, so that when it’s time, I can just pull and secure the one end quickly and quietly. Before you know it, one morning she won’t be in her usual basking spot and you’ll find her starting to dig in her bin. If she chooses somewhere else, like a plant pot, that’s fine - it’s her choice, not ours. Cover just the lower half of the enclosure so that she can’t see anyone. If she does see anyone watching her, she may stop digging and risks for becoming eggbound increase. I make little peek holes in my cover sheet, so I can peek and monitor without her seeing me. Some use cameras. Don’t worry about feeding her. If you don’t have an automatic misting system, you can set up a dripper (just not above the bin) or even just put some ice cubes on the screen top.
She may dig a few spots until she likes one. She’ll dig down to the bottom and it’s usually against a side. Then she’ll turn around and lay her eggs. When done, she’ll carefully cover all the holes she made and when satisfied, will return to her usual basking spot, looking much thinner and very dirty. The whole process usually takes a couple of days and she may sleep in her tunnel. Not all do that though. Once she’s done, you’ll want to feed and hydrate her very well for the next 2-3 days. Hornworms and silkworms are great feeders at this time. At some point you’ll want to remove the eggs and count them. Hopefully there’s less than 30. Then you are going to start her on the regimen that will hopefully reduce her egg production. You’ll feed her 3-4 appropriately sized feeders, 3 days a week (plus treats). Make sure to keep her basking temp no higher than 80. It may take a cycle or two to start working. The goal is to reduce her egg production so that she is laying small clutches of 20 or less eggs, and not laying 3-4 times a year. What my girls did, was both had several receptive periods, and even gained weight and became plump, but they never laid any eggs. One stopped all laying for three years (until she passed). The other was laying once a year, but I believe it was her sneaking peeks at my male that triggered her. He passed away last year and she skipped her ‘usual’ laying. I have a new male that unfortunately I couldn’t prevent her from seeing recently, so it’ll be interesting if she lays this year. Also of note, is that either the receptive periods stopped completely or they weakened so much that I didn’t see any changes. My girl who went three years did eventually lose most of her colors over time, but that too may have been from her being sick. My other girl is still gorgeous with her dark patterns.
The lay bin - it’s pretty easy to make a good lay bin. I found that a larger bin is preferred...at least 12x12” wide and long. Deep is good too. This is what my girls like.
View attachment 349012
Drill some tiny holes in the bottom so excess water can drain. Fill to about 5-6” deep with washed play sand. Provide a couple of stable ways in/out. When they are close to laying, you need to make sure that all of the sand is moist enough to hold a tunnel without collapsing. I try to hide the bin in the back of the enclosure and behind plant cover so they feel more private and safe. However, I have found that there is a preferred poo spot and avoiding that is best. When doing your daily spot checks, peek in the bin for poo and remove it.
View attachment 349013
Signs of a problem - Generally, as long as your husbandry is as perfect as possible, the risks of complications or problems laying eggs is greatly reduced. Always be alert though. If she is staying low in the enclosure/not basking and/or lethargic, dropping eggs randomly, any blood from anywhere, anything sticking out from vent, not eating/drinking, eyes closed during the day or anything that you just feel isn’t right…don’t delay in getting veterinary care. Another potential problem is she is trying digging in various spots, but not settling on one. This was how I learned just how fussy they can be about having a lay bin that meets their standards. My girl was in a bioactive enclosure - the whole floor was a giant lay bin! She spent a week digging everywhere (even the faux wall) and not liking anywhere. I even tried a smaller and shallow bin of sand. Desperate, I put her old lay bin in (the one in the pic) and she got down to business.
Do ask if you’ve got any questions.

Thank you so very much! I have to fix a few other little things and then will start adding in the bin. What sand do you use? She still doesn’t have her colors. Most of the time she is just bright green with a few lines but no real colors yet.

 

[MissSkittles]

Thank you so very much! I have to fix a few other little things and then will start adding in the bin. What sand do you use? She still doesn’t have her colors. Most of the time she is just bright green with a few lines but no real colors yet.

The sand is the kind that is used for children’s sand boxes and is usually found over by the concrete bags.The bag should say play sand.

 

[Beman]

Are these options good?

So the temp gauge is good.

You want heat bulbs like this. They sell these at petco/petsmart too https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Su...refix=exo+terra+daylight+bulbs,aps,139&sr=8-3

For UVB you want either reptisun or arcadia.
So this https://www.amazon.com/DBDPet-Repti...mzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

Or this https://www.amazon.com/Arcadia-Rept...mzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

Both of these you can order cheaper from other places. Amazon prices are higher. For the reptisun you want the 5.0 bulb with the T5HO 24 inch fixture. and for the arcadia you want the 6% bulb for the 24 inch T5HO fixture.

I will also work on getting the cage off the floor.

I have stopped with the d3 right after everyone told me about it and I’m just giving regular calcium. If she does have a broken or fractured rib what should I do.

Perfect. It will be a slow process for her bones to strengthen but should see much more improvement with the right UVB lighting added. With broken bones you are not able to do anything other than try not to hold her at all. Right now her bones would be more brittle so its dangerous should she fall or jump.

 

[Rileyheacock]

So the temp gauge is good.

You want heat bulbs like this. They sell these at petco/petsmart too https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Sun-Glo-Neodymium-60-Watt/dp/B01CDHMPJ6/ref=sr_1_3?crid=32SQ7AG938EYE&keywords=exo+terra+daylight+bulbs&qid=1704404952&sprefix=exo+terra+daylight+bulbs,aps,139&sr=8-3

For UVB you want either reptisun or arcadia.
So this https://www.amazon.com/DBDPet-Reptisun-Hood-UV-B-Bulb/dp/B08NMV6MPC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2DN1TH8ASOS74&keywords=reptisun+t5+ho+terrarium+hood+24+inch&qid=1704405040&sprefix=reptisun+24+inch+T,aps,140&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

Or this https://www.amazon.com/Arcadia-Reptile-Forest-6-UV-B-Single/dp/B09T96TPHJ/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2Y0IZ0A9AGZE&keywords=arcadia+prot5+uvb+kit+24"+with+bulb&qid=1704405073&sprefix=arcadia+prot5,aps,145&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

Both of these you can order cheaper from other places. Amazon prices are higher. For the reptisun you want the 5.0 bulb with the T5HO 24 inch fixture. and for the arcadia you want the 6% bulb for the 24 inch T5HO fixture.

Perfect. It will be a slow process for her bones to strengthen but should see much more improvement with the right UVB lighting added. With broken bones you are not able to do anything other than try not to hold her at all. Right now her bones would be more brittle so its dangerous should she fall or jump.

Thank you so much I will get these things and resolve the floor issue!

 

[Rileyheacock]

The sand is the kind that is used for children’s sand boxes and is usually found over by the concrete bags.The bag should say play sand.

Thank you so very much!

 

[Rileyheacock]

Thank you so much I will get these things and resolve the floor issue!

So the temp gauge is good.

You want heat bulbs like this. They sell these at petco/petsmart too https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Sun-Glo-Neodymium-60-Watt/dp/B01CDHMPJ6/ref=sr_1_3?crid=32SQ7AG938EYE&keywords=exo+terra+daylight+bulbs&qid=1704404952&sprefix=exo+terra+daylight+bulbs,aps,139&sr=8-3

For UVB you want either reptisun or arcadia.
So this https://www.amazon.com/DBDPet-Reptisun-Hood-UV-B-Bulb/dp/B08NMV6MPC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2DN1TH8ASOS74&keywords=reptisun+t5+ho+terrarium+hood+24+inch&qid=1704405040&sprefix=reptisun+24+inch+T,aps,140&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

Or this https://www.amazon.com/Arcadia-Reptile-Forest-6-UV-B-Single/dp/B09T96TPHJ/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2Y0IZ0A9AGZE&keywords=arcadia+prot5+uvb+kit+24"+with+bulb&qid=1704405073&sprefix=arcadia+prot5,aps,145&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

Both of these you can order cheaper from other places. Amazon prices are higher. For the reptisun you want the 5.0 bulb with the T5HO 24 inch fixture. and for the arcadia you want the 6% bulb for the 24 inch T5HO fixture.

Perfect. It will be a slow process for her bones to strengthen but should see much more improvement with the right UVB lighting added. With broken bones you are not able to do anything other than try not to hold her at all. Right now her bones would be more brittle so its dangerous should she fall or jump.

So I put the 50 watt light bulb in today and it’s only 71 in her basking spot and with the 150 watt it’s 83 . What is the better option until the get the new light in the mail?

I took her out for a seconds and she was very cold. I just took her out to check because it seemed cold in there

 

[Kodyf]

So I put the 50 watt light bulb in today and it’s only 71 in her basking spot and with the 150 watt it’s 83 . What is the better option until the get the new light in the mail?

I took her out for a seconds and she was very cold. I just took her out to check because it seemed cold in there

Maybe 100w basking bulb. I’m wondering if your thermometer is inaccurate. 150w bulb is very intense like recommended for a bearded dragon. If your ambient temps are at or near 72 during the day the basking area should be much higher than 71 with a 60w bulb. 150w bulb is what I use for my beardie I can send the lighting diagram that keeps reptiles basking at 100 degrees+ within 10 inches of the bulb