HELP! Sick Senegal Chameleon

[rabbitsongs]

Hello All,

We have a classroom chameleon (Senegal Chameleon). She has been doing very well - eating, climbing vines, etc. -

This morning when I entered the classroom, I found the chameleon had turned a deep shade of brown. (Until now it has been either light green or striped seemingly when hunting.) The chameleon was laying on the bottom of the terrarium.

I immediately misted the tank, put in lots of crickets and mealworms and checked the temp. Everything is as should be... but I am concerned that the chameleon is very sick and could use advice about what to do.

CAN ANYONE HELP!?!??!!

Thank you!

Bill

 

[MattiBee]

i don't own a senegal but I know the first thing that will be asked of you is to list what is going on in your enclosure, Heat, Light, Size, Misting schedule, Supplements, position of enclosure etc

otherwise i hope you have a solution soon.

Oh yeah and a pic would also help alot

Matt

 

[MattiBee]

Cage Info:
Cage Type - What kind of cage are you using? What is the size?
Lighting - What kind of lighting are you using? How long do you keep the lights on during the day?
Temperature - What temperature range have you created? Basking spot temp? What is the temperature at night?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What kind of schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What are you dusting your feeders with and what kind of schedule do you use?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

Thats what i was looking for, fill this out and you will get alot more help.

 

[rabbitsongs]

Info. Requested

Thank you Matt! Here are the answers to your questions:

Cage Info:
Cage Type - What kind of cage are you using? What is the size?

The terraruim/reptarium was donated to the classroom by a parent. The dimensions are approx. 11.5" X 11.5" X 15". The brand is ExoTerra.

Lighting - What kind of lighting are you using? How long do you keep the lights on during the day?

We are using a Rzilla light with a UV bulb. The light is on a timer from sun up to sun down.

Temperature - What temperature range have you created? Basking spot temp? What is the temperature at night?

Basking temp is 70 degrees F. Night time temps can dip to about 60 degrees F. I have been considering getting a heat lamp for the night but was advised against it for now.

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels?

We mist the cage manually with a pump three times a day and maintain the humidity above 70. We also have a layer of hydroballs underneath a layer of bedding and moss.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

None. All inside is plastic.

Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas?

It is not located near any windows, vents or high traffic areas.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon.

Senegal Chameleon, female, young adult

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What kind of schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

We feed the chameleon large crickets and large mealworms - mixture. We dust the crickets with calcium supplements and the crickets are fed an orange "brick" of sorts.

Supplements - What are you dusting your feeders with and what kind of schedule do you use?

See above.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I saw the chameleon drink from the the shallow water pool we placed in the terrarium for once.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.

Bright yellow/dark orange.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Nothing to my knowledge.

Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

The chameleon was dark brown and laying on the bottom of the terrarium when I came in this morning. Its grasp was weak when I picked it up briefly, though it did climb a vine when offered.

Since misting this morning, the chameleon has become more alert and is slowly turning green with dark stripes.

 

[MattiBee]

ok thats the information that should help people on here who keep senegals give you a better idea of whats going on. Im not much help with the husbandry as i said i dont own a senegal,

but one thing that came to my attention was you said her droppings are a bright yellow colour and dark orange. is there a white bit in his droppings? the white bit is the urates, and a white bit in there with little or no orange/yellow is a good sign of a well hydrated chameleon. There is a possibility that your cham may be de-hydrated. What do her eyes look like? do they look sunken and lifeless or are they plump and round?

Like i said im not a great help but at least me asking you these questions will keep your thread 'bumped up' and get you a better reply.

 

[MattiBee]

i know i am replying like crazy but i am at work and i keep thinking of extra things to say after i have quickly made a post.

Another thing to consider is the terrarium size, i looked on another thread that someone had a similar size enclosure for their senegal and a few people were saying that it is too small for an adult (bare in mind that was a adult male and yours is female). As i am not sure of the rate that the senegals grow at i can only advise that you look at the enclosure requirements for a senegal/possibly upgrading soon.

Also based on the basking temps needed for Panthers and Veileds, your temps seem quite low. Once again you need to search the forum or the rest of the net for some specifics, but its another thing to consider.

Also is the UV bulb you are using a compact bulb or a linear (tube) bulb? Compact bulbs can cause burns among other problems.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/buying-baby-senegal-chameleon-2623/index2.html

 

[rabbitsongs]

Replies

Matt - you are being so helpful!

There are white "portions/deposits" in the droppings. So that seems like a good thing.

The bulb is a winding tube.

The eyes look conical, about the same as always, just a darker color. No swelling. That was one of the first things I checked.

I think you're on to something about it being dehydrated. I've just done some more spraying in the tank. No changes in color yet except that it is perched higher up on a vine.

I'm concerned to use a heat lamp/bulb for fear of burning the chameleon. Do you - or anyone else - have any thoughts on this?

Thank you immensely!

Bill

 

[MattiBee]

well for my panther chameleon, i use a heat lamp on a thermostat that has a probe that measures the temperature, and adjusts the light bulb accordingly (In the UK they cost roughly £40, whereabouts in the world do you live?) and as long as you keep the bulb in a suitable position, the cham will be fine as they associate light with heat and a bright heat lamp will be best, i hear most people on here just use a regular house bulb.

unfortunately i do not know the specifics so someone else will have to help you with finding out if you need a heat lamp based on your temperatures. and from what i gather you will need to get a bigger enclosure, probably around 18x18x36 based on what i read of the other thread i said about earlier.

With any luck someone who keeps a senegal will catch this thread soon and give you definate spec of what you need. the hydration is a key issue with the health of a chameleon though and white urates are a good sign.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

The UVB sounds like a compact fluorescent which is a very controversial bulb and has caused lots of problems.
I would replace it with a linear tube (ZooMed Repti-sun 5.0) as soon as possible.
Senegals benefit from densely planted (live plant) environments and lots of water.
A dripper would be a good addition to your misting.
This is a glass enclosure? With glass, a basking light can be tricky (get too hot) but 70 is not warm enough for the basking spot for this animal.
I would try a very low wattage household bulb (maybe even 25 watt) in one corner to raise the temp a bit in a small basking area.

-Brad

 

[rabbitsongs]

Misting

Thank you both.

After teaching a class, I came back and found that the chameleon has turned green again and is climbing around. I misted the cage a lot this morning at your advice and the humidity has gone up to 90. I am taking this as a good sign.

I will look into misting options to ensure the humidity remains high, and I will also look into getting a larger terrarium.

If anyone else on this listserv has ideas, please do feel free to share!

Thanks!

Bill

 

[stevereecy]

I noticed you said that it drank from a watering dish once. They may only drink that way when they're desperate. The best way to water an old chameleon is to spray it directly with your pump sprayer. It may be getting most of its water from licking the leaves, but artificial plants don't hold the water very well.

What I'm driving at is that you could have a hydration problem, and thats why it perked up when you sprayed this morning. You likely need to mist it more often.

Another possibility is that it could be a gravid female looking for a place to lay eggs. Does it look fat around the belly? Lumpy? When they crawl along the cage bottom looking to dig, they can adopt a dark brown color.

Lastly, parasites could be the issue, but if you've had it a while, that is less likely, because the wild caught ones with bad parasite problems die real fast.

FWIW, I raised a senegal for a very long time in an odinary glass aquarium with a potting soil substrate before I learned more. Your set up can't be worse than mine was, though your lighting might need to be re-considered.

Good luck,

Steve

 

[rabbitsongs]

Droppings

Another update - I found mushy, tannish droppings in the chameleon's terrarium this afternoon. (Not firmer and white/yellow as before.) Could this be a sign of anything?

 

[rabbitsongs]

Gravid Female

I checked the abdomen, and it does appear to be a little swollen. What is a gravid female?

 

[mdrossncsu]

What is a gravid female

female about to lay eggs.

 

[stevereecy]

Another update - I found mushy, tannish droppings in the chameleon's terrarium this afternoon. (Not firmer and white/yellow as before.) Could this be a sign of anything?

The mushy tannish droppings aren't eggs...right?

 

[rabbitsongs]

Eggs?

I don't think so, but I will look on the internet to see if there are any images of chameleon eggs.

 

[dindy]

well my female veiled just layed eggs, this is what you have to do, and immediately if she is gravid!!! you need a bigger cage or enclosuer, you have to get a bucket that is about 14 inches deep and wide and fill it with washed play sand (from wal mart or anywhere else like that) than you have to moisten the sand completely all the way through so she would be able to dig a foot long tunnel without it collapsing in on her (moisten it enough that you would be able to make a sand castle with it).....put that in the cage and wait, you will see her starting to dig around and she will dig a hole, it might take a day or so, and try not to watch her, if she sees you watching her do it she will abandon the hole and maybe become egg bound and die
also, chams wont drink still water in bowls, make a dripper (post how to make one or search forums), and get a 5.0 uvb tube light aswell as a light fixture dome with a house hold bulb for heat right abov e a basking spot that can be reached about 6 inches below the heat lamp, you also shoudl not use any kind of substrate or dirt in the bottom at all.....this can cause mold to grow and cause your cham to develope respiratory infections....you can use like that felty kinda fake grass stuff...like reptile carpet if you may.....good luck...and the only reason i felt confident enough to write all of this is because of chameleonforums forums...thanks guys!!!

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I doubt if she is going to lay eggs.
From what I have heard it doesn't appear that senegalensis cycle eggs without mating like veileds or panthers.
I have had that tannish poo appear when the animal is stressed (ie: just traveled/was shipped) Are you sure it's not urates?
I think your chameleon is a bit dehydrated.
mist, mist, mist!!! And do set up a dripper ... you can have a collection container at the bottom of the enclosure to prevent things from getting too wet.
AND you absolutely MUST change that light.
I posted this before but we seem to have strayed .... your chameleon needs a new light and more water.

-Brad

 

[kinyonga]

Background info...I have been keeping chameleons for over 20 years...the first one I had was a Senegal and I have had a few of them over the years.

You said...""Rzilla light with a UV bulb"...."The bulb is a winding tube"...Brad is right...if its a compact I would replace it with a Repti-sun 5.0 linear/tube light

You said..."Basking temp is 70 degrees F"...as someone already said, this is too cool of a basking temperature. You can use a regular household incandescent bulb (in a hood) of a wattage that brings the temperature up to the low to mid 80's. Try putting your hand at the closest point that the chameleon can get to the bulb...if you don't have to take your hand away, then it won't likely burn the chameleon. Appropriate basking temperature plays a part in digestion and might be part of the problem with the feces, if its not within the right range.

You said..."We also have a layer of hydroballs underneath a layer of bedding and moss"...I do not recommend using substrate with any arboreal chameleons. Its too easy to end up with an impacted chameleon.

You said..."We dust the crickets with calcium supplements and the crickets are fed an orange "brick" of sorts"...IMHO both of these things need to be improved. I'll discuss supplements and gutloading/feeding crickets further down.

Watering a Senegal is important. I have found that if you just mist the cage, they won't drink enough. I recommend that you mist the chameleon gently or dribble water on the tip of its nose until it starts to drink. Be careful when its drinking that you don't spray hard or into its mouth or drip on the nose to rapidly so that the chameleon aspirates the water.

You said that the Fecal Description was..."bright yellow/dark orange"...there should be a dark brown "sausage-like" piece (the feces) and a white piece (the urates) and there should be a bit of clearish jelly-like stuff.

You said..."Its grasp was weak when I picked it up"...this concerns me a bit...but it might be nothing.

How long is the chameleon (total length or length snout to vent)? I am assuming its WC? Depending on its size when you got it, it could have mated in the wild or along the way before it got to you....but as Brad said, they don't ususally produce infertile clutches in captivity. If it is gravid, then that could be why its sitting on the floor of the cage. If its grip is truly weak it could have to do with that or possibly even calcium issues.

If its not just a matter of making a few husbandry changes and the issues still persist, then you should take it to the vets.

Supplements and lighting:
Exposure to UVB (that does not pass through glass or plastic) allows the chameleon to produce D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its system. The best source of UVB is, of course, the sun. If your chameleon is kept indoors then the UVB fluorescent tube light is what will provide the UVB.

Most of the insects we use as feeders have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous, so dusting the insects before feeding them to your chameleon with a phos.-free calcium powder helps to make up for this.

To ensure that a chameleon gets its vitamins, I dust twice a month with a vitamin powder with a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene will not build up in the system...the body converts what it needs. However, there is controversy as to whether all chameleons can convert beta carotene to vitamin A or not, so some people give a small amount of preformed vitamin A once in a while to ensure that the chameleon gets some. Preformed vitamin A does build up in the system though. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

When the chameleon gets no direct sunlight, then dusting twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder is advised. D3 from supplements can also build up in the chameleon's system...so don't overdo it.

Gutloading the insects and feeding them a nutritious diet is also recommended. Crickets may be fed an assortment of greens (dandelion, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are the four main players in bone health and need to be in balance. When trying to attain this balance, you need to look at the supplements and what is fed to the insects and the chameleon.

I hope this helps!

 

[rabbitsongs]

Substrate/Sand

Thank you all! Your knowledge is incredible. I will begin making these recommended changes. There's a lot to learn. The chameleon is doing better today. Crawling around actively, eating, etc.

I'm going to start with revamping the cage - getting the substrate out, adding more vines, etc. Do you recommend there still be a sandy base in case the chameleon is gravid and needs to dig?