High white orange veiled chameleon

[Bigsky]

I hatched him out about 8 weeks ago and the older he gets the more orange he gets. Ive never seen 1 like this before. Heres a couple of picsView attachment 223614View attachment 223613

Did you back cross to get this?

 

[nickyal]

Brother and sister

 

[Calypratus]

That is one of the most gorgeous veiled chams Ive ever laid eyes on!

 

[JoXie411]

Wow he’s so beautiful. That coloring is to die for. Definitely would want one of these babies one day

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

Showed your baby off to the reptile shop owner yesterday and he was blown away! Asked me when I can get some for him hahaha

 

[nickyal]

Im hoping to have eggs later this year. I have never seen 1 like it before.

 

[JoXie411]

Im hoping to have eggs later this year. I have never seen 1 like it before.

Idk how you get anything done. if I had that bad boy I could watch him for hours. Sooo dam beautiful

 

[nickyal]

I wouldnt no what sort of price they would go for. Any ideas. What would people be willing to pay

 

[TheLetterAfterP(Q)]

Brother and sister

This high orange cham is beautiful, but this post worries me majorly. Incest is never okay, in fact, there's an entire thread on it. https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...-panther-chameleon.167803/page-2#post-1458414 Please be careful breeding these beautiful chams.

 

[Calypratus]

I think a good price would be between 600$-1000 or more... If that's the first of its kind it will probably be even more!

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

I think a good price would be between 600$-1000 or more... If that's the first of its kind it will probably be even more!

Shush! I don't have that much money for a chameleon!!! Lol

 

[Bigsky]

Brother and sister

Keep backcrossing. This probably is a recessive trait.

 

[Lennoncham]

This high orange cham is beautiful, but this post worries me majorly. Incest is never okay, in fact, there's an entire thread on it. https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...-panther-chameleon.167803/page-2#post-1458414 Please be careful breeding these beautiful chams.

Agreed.

Keep backcrossing. This probably is a recessive trait.

No no no. It clearly already has some major genetic defects I dont think you need to make it crazier by more inbreeding.

 

[JoXie411]

Keep backcrossing. This probably is a recessive trait.

No then we will have joffrey chameleons!

 

[Goose502]

Curious to hear some diligent breeders chime in on this. I’m not completely against line breeding, but curious to know the most efficient way to outcross and add fresh genetics but keep the defect/morph. Thankfully veiled chameleons mature extremely fast, this will mean generations of genetics whether polymorphic and/or recessive.

 

[Bigsky]

Agreed.


No no no. It clearly already has some major genetic defects I dont think you need to make it crazier by more inbreeding.

No then we will have joffrey chameleons!

Curious to hear some diligent breeders chime in on this. I’m not completely against line breeding, but curious to know the most efficient way to outcross and add fresh genetics but keep the defect/morph. Thankfully veiled chameleons mature extremely fast, this will mean generations of genetics whether polymorphic and/or recessive.

Animal and plant breeders have used back crossing as a powerful tool to produce improved lines.

 

[Bigsky]

Animal and plant breeders have used back crossing as a powerful tool to produce improved lines.

If you are really concerned, try this: normal male x bald female; then normal female X bald male. The offspring probably will appear to be normal, but will be heterozygous. Then cross these offspring, and you should get one third expressing the bald characteristic. Note that Ihave used the term "bald" for your brown characteristic. Frankly, there is no reason to be concerned about continuing to breed the morphs for a few more generations. Inbreeding does not cause mutations.

 

[Goose502]

If you are really concerned, try this: normal male x bald female; then normal female X bald male. The offspring probably will appear to be normal, but will be heterozygous. Then cross these offspring, and you should get one third expressing the bald characteristic. Note that Ihave used the term "bald" for your brown characteristic. Frankly, there is no reason to be concerned about continuing to breed the morphs for a few more generations. Inbreeding does not cause mutations.

True/false statement. Mutations are expressed more often when inbreeding. These genetic defects are dormant due to either recessive traits or are polymorphic. Typically, these dormant mutations will not be expressed as it requires both parents to carry the “defect”. Inbreeding increases your chance of mutation because both parent animals are more likely to carry an in expressed recessive gene. Albanism is a good example of this. For a breeder, this means expressed mutations may appear over less generations, costing less money and taking less time. The issues many have with this are the overall health of the offspring. Though they appear beautiful, they may have deminished health. I doubt little has been done by way of research in genetics for any reptile, chameleons in specific. Still, not saying I’m completely against it, but i would prefer the breeder try outcrossing sooner than later. This would result in the same mutations, more robust/healthy offspring, just over a longer timeline. Again, this is only an example for recessive genes. Other things may be expressed by continually breeding chameleons with certain valued traits though not related.

 

[freddyf385]

Very cool veiled

 

[Calummaty Jane]

True/false statement. Mutations are expressed more often when inbreeding. These genetic defects are dormant due to either recessive traits or are polymorphic. Typically, these dormant mutations will not be expressed as it requires both parents to carry the “defect”. Inbreeding increases your chance of mutation because both parent animals are more likely to carry an in expressed recessive gene. Albanism is a good example of this. For a breeder, this means expressed mutations may appear over less generations, costing less money and taking less time. The issues many have with this are the overall health of the offspring. Though they appear beautiful, they may have deminished health. I doubt little has been done by way of research in genetics for any reptile, chameleons in specific. Still, not saying I’m completely against it, but i would prefer the breeder try outcrossing sooner than later. This would result in the same mutations, more robust/healthy offspring, just over a longer timeline. Again, this is only an example for recessive genes. Other things may be expressed by continually breeding chameleons with certain valued traits though not related.

There's so much crazy variation going on with snake and bearded dragon morphs, that I have to believe someone somewhere has been keeping records of what kinds of problems are encountered with the inbreeding that has produced these morphs AND then hopefully someone else has gone on to establish best practices for out crossing and limits on inbreeding to keep the problems in check, as has been done for dogs, cats, etc. Is there a registry of reptile breeders like the CFA and whatever kennel clubs you have for dog and cat breeders? Is there something like that for cham breeders? Just curious.