Horrible News

[Hakai]

My new 5 month old chameleon went into his shedding stage about a week after I got him. His appetite decreased tremendously, which didn't surprise me since it normal for them not to eat as much when shedding. But within the week after he had finished shedding he only ate about 3 crickets. I located the nearest vet and called to set up an appointment. They were booked until today at 7:40 PM so that's when I scheduled the appointment. However when I woke up today. He was hanging upside down by only his tail on his vine, completely limp. I feel horrible. I'm not sure what happened but I believe it was parasites, most likely coccidia. I feel terrible for not trying to get an emergency appointment, as I am a first time owner and I didn't realize the seriousness of the issue. I am insanely discouraged because this was my greatest fear (among many others) of owning a chameleon. I did so much research and there are no apparent problems concerning my husbandry. I feel like all of that effort has gone to waste. I okay'd my supplies and everything with members of this forum and still, my care proved to be insufficient. I apologize to my cham and to all of you guys. I seek help for what may have happened. I don't want to put the blame on my cricket supplier, but that might be it. There also might be a problem with the way I am housing the crickets. How do you keep crickets in such a way that they are not able to interact with one another fecal matter? Is it common for a few of the crickets to die within the first couple days? I know I supplied them with plenty of food and gel water but some of them always die. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated so that IF I overcome my feeling of insufficiency I can prevent this from happening in the future. I apologize for letting you all down. Thank you for taking time that you could be spending with your chams to read this undeserving thread.

 

[ReptiGeek]

I am terribly sorry for your loss. The chameleon world can be ever so rewarding, as well as depressing. Things can change in the blink of an eye. My condolences.

As for your cricket keeping question/ theory, you may be right but we won't entirely know that for sure. There are always the few crickets that perish however there shouldn't be multiple crickets dying daily. Providing sufficient space as well as hides (egg cartons and TP rolls) are very key. Make sure to not just offer a dry gut load but vegetables and fruits too. That way they are as healthy as can be when feeding to a chameleon. Cleaning out the tote you keep them in once every 2 weeks is an essential.
Best of luck with what the future holds for you.

 

[deadhd5]

I am so sorry for your loss and completely sympathize, as the same thing happened with my first chameleon (I would guess the same thing happened to most of our first chameleons). It is not your fault, the shedding masked his symptoms. There was no way for you to know from your description of events that you were dealing with an emergency issue.

It is hard to say what could have happened, although it is normal for some crickets to die in the bin.

 

[Decadancin]

Sorry to hear your sad news. The only advice I would have for future endeavors would be to get a fecal test done soon after bringing a new chameleon home as well as at least yearly. This can help diagnose issues before they show signs of sickness. It is somewhat common for a few feeders to die off when you bring them home. Just make sure to keep them clean and fed with fresh food. (I have two containers that I switch out when one gets dirty. This allows me to clean one even if I still have a bunch of feeders left.)
This is the fear we all have inside. No matter what we think we know, we can always learn more. It is sad that we learn things too late.
I am truly sorry for your loss.

 

[Hakai]

Thank you guys so much being understanding. It makes me feel so much better, and less inadequate. Here is what I house my crickets in. I put the toothpaste there for size reference. I poked about 20 pencil sized holes in the top. I get about 4 dozen crickets at a time and put in dry gutload, carrots, lettuce, and water gel stuff. I was planning on switching up the gutload weekly.

 

[Carlton]

My new 5 month old chameleon went into his shedding stage about a week after I got him. His appetite decreased tremendously, which didn't surprise me since it normal for them not to eat as much when shedding. But within the week after he had finished shedding he only ate about 3 crickets. I located the nearest vet and called to set up an appointment. They were booked until today at 7:40 PM so that's when I scheduled the appointment. However when I woke up today. He was hanging upside down by only his tail on his vine, completely limp. I feel horrible. I'm not sure what happened but I believe it was parasites, most likely coccidia. I feel terrible for not trying to get an emergency appointment, as I am a first time owner and I didn't realize the seriousness of the issue. I am insanely discouraged because this was my greatest fear (among many others) of owning a chameleon. I did so much research and there are no problems with the enclosure (humidity or anything). I feel like all of that effort has gone to waste. I okay'd my supplies and everything with members of this forum and still, my care proved to be insufficient. I apologize to my cham and to all of you guys. I seek help for what may have happened. I don't want to put the blame on my cricket supplier, but that might be it. There also might be a problem with the way I am housing the crickets. How do you keep crickets in such a way that they are not able to interact with one another fecal matter? Is it common for a few of the crickets to die within the first couple days? I know I supplied them with plenty of food and gel water but some of them always die. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated so that IF I overcome my insufficient feeling I can prevent this from happening in the future. I apologize for letting you all down. Thank you for taking time that you could be spending with your chams to read this undeserving thread.

So sad! Are you asking for a necropsy? This is the only way you'll really know what happened, whether it was some sort of accident, something related to dying crix (IMHO I doubt that), parasites including coccidia, etc. The results could also give you peace of mind that you were not doing anything wrong. I have lost a couple of young, fairly newly acquired chams in the past despite knowing how to care for them. Necropsies pinpointed something completely unexpected (kidney disease, necrotic loop of bowel) and helped heal my heart.

Just my $0.02...I haven't dealt with coccidia that I know of, but from what I've read here there would have been some symptoms of it before this (smelly watery fecals I think). He was pretty young for such a heavy infestation that lead to death so something else was probably going on in the background to make him so vulnerable. It could be nothing you did or didn't do. Just don't know either way.

Most times when I get new crix some have died or die soon after they arrive. We forget that crix just like anything other living thing have their own health problems. If you buy adults you are bound to get some that are near the end of their normal life regardless of health. If they were exposed to heat or cold during shipping it can doom those that are not perfectly healthy to begin with. When they are crowded into shipping containers they do stress each other and can also feed on each other.

Be warned...some tp manufacturers use toxic glue ingredients when making their roll cores these days but there's no way to know which ones. I don't use them for crix or anything else that might chew on the material. Its not as if they are expecting anyone to use the cores around feeder insects.

 

[Kaianuanu]

It's always a shame to lose a pet. I had been researching chams for years before i got my first panther. I had him for a month when his appetite began to decline and in about a week, he had died. It discouraged me too and I just sold off all of my stuff. Now three years laterim gettin back on the horse and getting another Nosy Be. And I'm kicking myself for not sticking with it. So my advice to you would be to sanitize all your Cham stuff with a bleach solution. Take a few weeks to a few months to do more research and find out what went wrong, and then once you're confident again, buy another Cham from a very reputable breeder. That last part is important, poor quality animals, especially chameleons, do not give good odds for success, especially for beginners. Another important tip is to make sure you heed the advice of the experienced members of the forum. There where a few possible causes of my first cham's death but I believe it was caused by a D3 overdose, I blew off the warnings of other members and listened to my breeders recommendation to use rep-cal w/D3 6 days a week and Herptivite on the 7th day, WAAAY too much! So don't get discouraged, do a little more reading, and get back in the saddle.

 

[ChuWuti]

Wow. What a tragic loss! You must feel so frustrated with all the preparatory study and work you put into your chameleon . . .

The most frustrating thing is not really knowing how he was taken care of before you got him. The previous owner may not have had the best husbandry. Or it could be something internal that you couldn't have done anything about.

I don't think anything about the crickets could have caused such a rapid loss; it really sounds to me as if there was something else going on--something that probably or at least possibly existed before you got him. But I'm speculating; I wouldn't know for sure--and maybe you won't be able to find out for sure.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Sandy

 

[GabeCastro]

Sorry for your loss...I def know how you feel.

To be honest, a lot of things could of happened to your cham which were out of your control.

My first cham fought coccidia & pinworms, which didn't end with a victory. It's a tough parasite to clear up but people do it. To me your chams symptoms sound exactly like my last chams. I thought he was gunna shed soon because he's skin was flakey, then he wouldn't eat for a few days. I got worried got him a fecal and low and behold, 2 parasites.

Another thing that could of happened was your cham ate something hard and he couldn't digest it (impaction).

Or he could of ate a water crystal (clear gel cubes) and the water crystal expanded inside his stomach. I've seen quite a few threads of this happening...

To find your answer i'd take him in for a necropsy, it's also recommend by all the vets on this site aswell if you really want to know what happened. If it comes up as parasites, most likely your feeder insects got ahold of the coccidia from a wild anole or something. Really only way to be extra careful with feeder insects is making your own colony...

Again, sorry for your loss

-Gabe

 

[deadhd5]

Thank you guys so much being understanding. It makes me feel so much better, and less inadequate. Here is what I house my crickets in. I put the toothpaste there for size reference. I poked about 20 pencil sized holes in the top. I get about 4 dozen crickets at a time and put in dry gutload, carrots, lettuce, and water gel stuff. I was planning on switching up the gutload weekly.

More ventilation would be ideal. I cut large holes on the top and all four sides and attached aluminum screen using hot glue. The more ventilation the better. I also improved my dieoff ratio by moving my cricet keeper out of the high humitity chameleon room and into my low humidity garage. Changing out food daily so the crickets are not eating mold is also key.

However, I doubt that this had much to do with your tragic loss.

 

[Kaianuanu]

You might have better luck by cutting a big window out of the lid to your cricket box and glueing in some aluminum screen, provides much better ventilation.

 

[Hakai]

Thank you all so much for your condolences. I have a few questions. What exactly is a necropsy? Is it like an autopsy? How much do they cost? Thanks again. You guys are the greatest.

 

[GabeCastro]

Thank you all so much for your condolences. I have a few questions. What exactly is a necropsy? Is it like an autopsy? How much do they cost? Thanks again. You guys are the greatest.

An Autopsy is the process of examining a deceased human, as for a necropsy is the process of examining a deceased non-human(animals).

 

[Hakai]

An Autopsy is the process of examining a deceased human, as for a necropsy is the process of examining a deceased non-human(animals).

Thank you. I just called my vet and the charge for a necropsy is $320. Although I really would like to know what happened, I'm not gonna be able to do that. I think I will just save up and do more research and use that money to make the next one (if I get one) as happy as I can.

 

[Kaianuanu]

If you're not the squeamish type, id'd recommend that you do one yourself. Basically you perform a dissection and look for the cause of death. Heres an excellent article on how to do it yourself. Even though you are not trained, it will be a good learning experience, and some health problems are really hard to miss despite you not knowing what you're looking for.

http://www.chameleonnews.com/02MayGreek.html

 

[Hakai]

If you're not the squeamish type, id'd recommend that you do one yourself. Basically you perform a dissection and look for the cause of death. Heres an excellent article on how to do it yourself. Even though you are not trained, it will be a good learning experience, and some health problems are really hard to miss despite you not knowing what you're looking for.

http://www.chameleonnews.com/02MayGreek.html

That sounds like a great idea. I am the squeamish type, but even if I end up not being responsible for his death, I am responsible to learn as much as I can to prevent it from happening again. Why waste the body when I can use it as a learning experience to help my future chams and other peoples chams as well? Well, here I go. I'm gonna dive into that link you gave me and do what I can. Wish me luck.

 

[Kaianuanu]

That sounds like a great idea. I am the squeamish type, but even if I end up not being responsible for his death, I am responsible to learn as much as I can to prevent it from happening again. Why waste the body when I can use it as a learning experience to help my future chams and other peoples chams as well? Well, here I go. I'm gonna dive into that link you gave me and do what I can. Wish me luck.

Great attitude! Being a hunter and fisherman(my other expensive hobbies) I can't really relate, but I promise, cutting open a fresh animal isn't gross at all compared to the nasty preserved corpses we dissected in school.

 

[Hakai]

Great attitude! Being a hunter and fisherman(my other expensive hobbies) I can't really relate, but I promise, cutting open a fresh animal isn't gross at all compared to the nasty preserved corpses we dissected in school.

When is the best time to do it? Is a few days after too long? And what are some of the most common signs I should be looking for.

 

[Kaianuanu]

ASAP! Just look for the stuff in the article and since you suspected parasites, I'd suggest you be sure to open up the digestive tract and comb through all of the contents and look for any worms (parasitic worms that is, not feeders lol) or anything like that.

 

[Kaianuanu]

You might also be able to recover some fecal material that can be used for a fecal float by your vet to further look for parasites.