Reading this forum has convinced me to avoid the pet stores. Thank you all for that. The website sponsors don't currently have any juveniles available. I found a website, cbreptile.com, that looks good and seems to be saying all the right things. But, how do you really know? When we got our dog, AKC and local breed associations really helped with making an educated choice. With a chameleon it feels a lot more like rolling the dice and hoping for the best. Is there a national association? A way for a breeder to be certified? Would greatly appreciate any advice you all can offer. Thank you!
How does a newbie find a reputable breeder?
- Thread starter JayceOhio
- Start date
PabloTheCham
Chameleon Enthusiast
People seem to think highly of Kammerflage, though I don't have any experience with them.
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Welcome to the forums, I don’t recommend cbreptiles. Check the classifieds here on the forums.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/forums/chameleons-for-sale.47/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/forums/chameleons-for-sale.47/
Thank you. Unfortunately, only future females available at Kammerflage. As a beginner, I am not going to try to breed. And Kammerflage's available females come from such beautiful and colorful bloodlines, it seems a waste to not have them responsibly bred. The colors of those chameleons are truly stunning.
Jannb - I know you are extremely highly regarded here as a source of knowledge and as a breeder. So, I will cross them off the list. Not be argumentative, but hoping to learn, what has put you off cbreptiles? I am trying to understand how to distinguish between breeders. Kammerflage is well regarded here. As a beginner, looking at their website and cbreptiles website and it seems to me they both driven by a philosophy of responsible breeding and caring for the animals. Is it just something you need to learn over the years?
BenjiTheCham
Established Member
The pet stores that you want to avoid are Petsmart and Petco, or any other chain. Most local stores should be fine, the chain ones don’t train their employees properly and don’t give the proper equipment for them to provide the proper care for them. Go to any Petsmart or Petco and you’ll find a small five gallon glass tank with 3+ sickly veiled chameleons packed in with the only source of water being a small shallow dish on the bottom. I doubt the mist, and if they do it’s not often. Going to a local store is night and day. I guess it depends on where you live. If you live in a big city you’ll probably find a bunch.
Thanks. There is a local,guy, but he indicated that chameleons were not really his interest. He had one, that didn't look all the great. He had dozens of beardies and was quite animated when discussing them. He pitched me snakes, tortoises, monitors- all which looked like they got great care. It seemed like a fantastic place, if your passion was a desert based reptile.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ehhhh most local stores aren't worth it either. Even if one is, you're still risking parasites more than a reputable breeder from all the cross contamination and new reptiles coming into the store.
BenjiTheCham
Established Member
Oh.. I didn't know that. I guess it depends if your store breeds their own. Mine does at least
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I’ve just read on here and on some FB groups where people were unhappy with them. My only personal experience with them, they were using my photo of one of my males on they website without my permission. It made people think he was one of their breeders.
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
I've brought up some of these issues & questions in this thread. A further complication right now is shipping reptiles during the pandemic. (There may be an update to that thread, but AFAIK, there are still some challenges.) So until shipping again becomes viable, either waiting or vetting local breeders seem like the best options.
Exploring local breeder options here, on FB, MorphMarket, and google are probably the main sources, though I've also had some success finding small local breeders of reptiles on voofla that weren't listed anywhere else.
AFAIK, most reptile shows are cancelled for now, but those with websites usually have a section listing their vendors. It's a source.
Once you have a list of potentials comes the tedious part—trying to vet each one. You could combine finding potentials and vetting as you go—up to you.
I've done some vetting, but I want to get my enclosure up & running smoothly before buying a chameleon (good advice also gleaned from these pages) and I haven't narrowed down which locales of panthers I'm interested in yet.
I have heard great things about @ChamLB here is their website https://tkchameleons.com/
I have also heard great things about frams chams. https://framschams.com/
Kammerflage is great as well and they update their website frequently.
You will want to also reach out the the private breeders to find out if they have an upcoming clutch. Some will not post them for sale until they know exactly what they have available and what they are holding back.
Might have to be a bit patient to get the one you really want.
I agree with @jamest0o0 private stores are more often not much better then the big box chain stores. They typically order theirs in without any prior information on them as well.
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
The worst private store I'm aware of is Pets-Plus in Lockport, NY. I saw them at a reptile show, and they had an unbelievable selection of reptiles you just don't see anywhere. But when I went home to vet them, well... decide for yourselves.
pets plus lockport (scroll down)
pets plus lockport (scroll down)
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
Locally owned pet stores aren’t always any better than the chain stores. IMHO any entity that is in it purely for profit is less concerned with putting out and selling quality healthy animals. I believe that breeders such as Kammerflage and others, while yes they are in it for profit, they also love their chameleons and selectively breed to bring out the best of the species. Plus they are always there for support.
Doesn’t @salty dog have some baby panthers?
Doesn’t @salty dog have some baby panthers?
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Shipping is still very bad. I have been making road trips to delivery my babies.
https://shipyourreptiles.com/pages/critical-information
Out of curiosity, what is the consensus on shipping versus finding a local breeder within driving distance? Of course with the pandemic there are great concerns about shipping, but in general under normal circumstances, is one better than the other? If going with a small local breeder, how do we know they have been properly vetted?
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