Extensionofgreen
Chameleon Enthusiast
Don't use a dimmer, it still stresses the filament and reduces the visible light available to stimulate the chameleon.
How/Where to measure basking temps, Help.
- Thread starter cyberlocc
- Start date
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think you are overthinking again! Consider that a cham in the wild isn't exposed to constant temps while basking either. The sun travels, so the angle at which it heats the cham's immediate surroundings changes minute by minute too. As it rises it gets hotter...as it sets it cools off again. Most chams will be basking in the morning or mid afternoon, but seeking more shade at blazing noon. What you don't want to create is a basking spot that quickly heats up to a temp that's 10 or more degrees TOO hot and stays that way hour after hour, day after day. That's what can lead to a thermal burn, not a minute to minute variation. I also agree...don't use a dimmer.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Wait how I am overthinking it this time lol.
So what I have now
. Is the thermostat set to 86f to shut off the light. I kinda keep an eye out it shuts off for a few secs in the heat of the afternoon for about 2 hours it will be on for 15-20 mins then shut off for a few secs then back on. I have noticed him do that himself already. In the mornings he will chill in the middle of the tree under leaves, where the temp is medium (usually 70ish at the bottom 75-80 in the center, 80-85 in the top). He will do that till about 11 or 12, then he moves to the basking spot where he stays till about 4-5, then he moves back in to the branches of the tree in the shade. Then it curls up on a branch near the door (pretty much same branch or vicinity anyway) on the tree and gets ready to go to sleep around 730-745, I shut the lights off at 8, and he is ready.
I did adjust his schedule 8-8 now. There is a small amount of lights in the morning from the window its mostly blocked though. But I have a blackout drape on his cage. It is permanently on 1 side (stapled to the back, then Velcro to the front of that side so I can clean it). The curtain wraps across the door and velcros to the door. When the drape is up at night, if room lights are on his cage is still very dark inside, in the morning it is pretty dark as well. The drape leaves 1 side open screen and the top open screen. But the other side and the door, are covered, so only semi ventilated.
Are you saying I should just take the thermostat out completely and let it get over 86? Also I dont know if its just my cham or what. However all them care sheets say that at his age, the temps in the basking spot should be 75-80 tops. Well he doesn't like that at all lol. When I had his temps like that, he was very inactive and didnt seem happy. Now with the temps reaching 86 (in the morning its cooler) he is very very active.
Since we are here I have another question for you. So I have more feeders coming soon, I got a start of a colony of wild caught Isopods, though I want to get a few generations later and then QT them before I feed him any babies from it. (The wild caught have parasites and heavy metals). Anyway got dubias coming a bunch (hope they are small enough it said ~3/8s) for his age everything I read said that be the size to get? Back to the point, ATM with him I got crickets, and grabbed some mealworms from the local store. He will NOT eat the crickets. the first day he was here, he ate a few like 2 maybe 3, and I had to plop those right in front of him. since then nothing no crickets.
I know they can be stressed and wont eat much at first, however the next part is the issue. When he wouldnt eat the crickets, I put in a cup and some mealworms, (4). He snapped them right near my hand I was still putting the cup in and boom. He ate the 3 small ones. they are regular mealworms none are really big, but maybe an inch. He wont eat the inch ones, but the next day I went through the entire mealworm container and got all the small ones. (there was 3 left) put them in the cup left the room for 2 mins come back and hes on the vine chewing the last one lol.
I know mealworms are not good for them, and I am out of babys. So Should I go get more mealworms tomorrow? or wait for the dubias and keep giving crickets? Will he eat the crickets? The crickets are also dying off very fast they are from LLL reptile, over half have died and they have food water and gutload but they are still dying in droves. Could there be something wrong with the crix and he knows that?
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
A couple of things to consider: just because he is very active doesn't mean he's happy. When you say he doesn't seem to like the lower temp recommended, what do you mean? Is he dark colored? Sleeping? Not eating or drinking at all? A contented cham who has what he needs isn't necessarily very active. Typically they bask until their internal organs reach "operating temp", then they may hunt, drink. do a border patrol of their territory, then settle in a favorite perch for much of the day. Constant roaming and brighter coloration might indicate that he's a little overstimulated or seeking something different. The warmer he is the more active he'll get up to a point when he's overheated and trying to get someplace cooler.
IMHO the light switching off and on would be disruptive. They are so responsive to light this must be confusing. What I was trying to suggest was that the temp right at his basking spot can safely go through a cycle as long as the hottest that spot gets once the bulb has been on long enough to stabilize the heat output isn't much higher than 85. I would adjust the light physically (distance from the cage top) until the temp at his basking perch is 85 after the bulb has been on long enough to heat up. I don't know how long your particular bulb takes to reach its maximum temp but that should be easy to figure out with a temp gun and some time. Earlier in the day while the basking area is warming up, your cham may just spend more time basking. There's nothing wrong with that...he will reach his desired internal body temp given time. I'd rather err on the cooler side and have the cham bask a little longer than risk a thermal burn.
Chams like mealworms...he's being stubborn. Tough love helps.
Crickets can die if they are overcrowded or not clean enough...they are cannibalistic and can chew on or eat weaker ones. How many do you have in your bin together? I very much doubt your cham detects anything wrong with the crickets per se. Crickets could have been exposed to cold or heat during transit that weakened them. And, just like any other living thing they do have their own specific diseases that can be contagious among themselves. You might try separating the obviously healthy crix from the others and see how they do. Also, ordering adults means you are getting them when they are getting old. They don't live that long.
IMHO the light switching off and on would be disruptive. They are so responsive to light this must be confusing. What I was trying to suggest was that the temp right at his basking spot can safely go through a cycle as long as the hottest that spot gets once the bulb has been on long enough to stabilize the heat output isn't much higher than 85. I would adjust the light physically (distance from the cage top) until the temp at his basking perch is 85 after the bulb has been on long enough to heat up. I don't know how long your particular bulb takes to reach its maximum temp but that should be easy to figure out with a temp gun and some time. Earlier in the day while the basking area is warming up, your cham may just spend more time basking. There's nothing wrong with that...he will reach his desired internal body temp given time. I'd rather err on the cooler side and have the cham bask a little longer than risk a thermal burn.
Chams like mealworms...he's being stubborn. Tough love helps.
Crickets can die if they are overcrowded or not clean enough...they are cannibalistic and can chew on or eat weaker ones. How many do you have in your bin together? I very much doubt your cham detects anything wrong with the crickets per se. Crickets could have been exposed to cold or heat during transit that weakened them. And, just like any other living thing they do have their own specific diseases that can be contagious among themselves. You might try separating the obviously healthy crix from the others and see how they do. Also, ordering adults means you are getting them when they are getting old. They don't live that long.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Okay so when it was 80, he was very dark brown his stripe wasn't showing at all ect. Oddly however he would sit in the middle of the cage all day same spot not moving not doing anything at all really. When he did move it was to the very top of the cage, to the thermometer cord trying to get on the top screen. Once I let the temp raise he stopped trying to do that, now he patrols as you said and sits in his basking spot a lot of the day. Before he wouldn't sit in the basking spot at all he would try to get to the top of the cage screen (which he cant do to the wooden beams). He drank, but didnt eat, he also feel asleep a few times with the lights on. When he first got here he ate nothing, the next day I plopped a cricket right next to him he ate it. He then didn't eat anymore that I put in his cage free roam. The next day I tried putting them in the cup again no eating at all. Then I raised the temps and put some worms in the cup he ran to them ate them while I was putting them in the cup.
Okay so remove the stat and put the light up 1 or 2 links? it barely hits 30c (its C based) so if I raised it it likely would rarely get that hot even. Its a 60w white bulb and right now about 6-7 inches from the basking spot.
the links are small it would take 4 to raise it 1 inch.
The box was 100 (maybe a more like 20% or whatever.) I would say there is maybe 60ish which about 20 died last night alone. They are in a 7x5 inch cricket keeper. They are baby crickets 1/8-1/4 inch. There enclosure also has a bunch of paper towel rolls in it.
I clean it everyday so far. The next morning the floor is lined with dead ones, even the cleaner crew bugs are dying off?
I am going to try to trick him today, I put in there a bunch of crickets in the cup with 2 mealworms. So I am hoping that will entice him to grab some crickets or grab 1 on accident. the roaches should be here friday. They likely did get cold. The temps were very cold when they shipped the cham and crixs, I told them that and told them he needs a heat pack. They didn't put one in there however and when he was delivered the temps were around 46f. However the temps in Califronia (where he came from) and Pheonix (where it came through) were hot, and they got him at the fed ex up here at noon and delivered at 4.
Last edited:
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
Some paper towel and tp rolls are fastened together with glue that has toxic ingredients...maybe arsenic..can't recall. Try egg cartons instead. I'd also call LLL and tell them you've lost most of your order. They may replace them.
Besides what Calton's advised are correctly,I will suggest raise your cricket keeper temperature higher between 80F to 90F from my personal experience with the cricket food along with damp paper towel for drink and not drowning,temperature is very important for those baby crickets,I did it and so can you!!
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
I am honestly not that worried about the crickets. I just got them with him as they didnt have dubias the right size
. However crickets are coming off the menu the smell the noise ect, ya I am just not going to deal with that. I may grab crickets locally from time to time (only so much that he can eat in a day or 2) but beyond that ya no crickets.I have a fairly diverse extensive bug diet already thought out
, Dubias and Silkies will be the staples and crickets are nixed . I will also be adding, Isopods (breeding them) Supers (breading them) Hornworms (breeding? Maybe buying), Butterworms (buying obviously) Thinking maybe banana roaches, and going to try to find some wild stick bugs that I can breed, and maybe breeding some snails or something. However Dubias and Silkies will likely make up around 50% with the rest maybe 10% each.With the stick bugs there is a guy here that sells the Indian sticks but arent they not illegal in the US?
As for the Crickets care. They have dry cricket food, Gutload that I made with a long list of fruits and veggies (sandras blog) then freezed to cubes. They can get water from that, however I also have a cotton flat in a cap that I went they are not drowning. They are not starving, and not thirsty, I doubt it is paper rolls. As I didn't add them till the third day to make it easier to get them out. Before that they had egg crates. And they having been dying in droves since I got them. Could be the container is too small, I am not sure.
Oh the cotton holds water, and it is 100% organic Japanese cotton, ubleached. I use it for my ecig wick so I trust it enough to inhale off it
.Like I said though, as long as they wont hurt the cham and I can get him to eat them for a few more days I am happy. After that these things are going bye bye
.
Last edited:
Yes,Im a person with Dubia all the way,all my adult chams are eating Dubia as a staple diet,I keep 68Female dubias with 24 males in the breeder tank and usually every day I get 30 to 90 (each female laid about 30)new born dubia for me to keep,and Im in the process to switch the dubia babies diet from the crickets since the baby dubia are still too big for some later born batch of the baby chams .
As far as the stick bugs,if u meant for the walking stick,you can check with your local and state/provincial regulations to see if they are legal since lots state doent even allowed them as a pet.
And u will have to raise the temperature on your cricket keeper to around 80F to 90F,I use a 40watts bulb since my cham room are constantly around 80F degree,so depending on ur room temperature,u can play with the light bulb wattage.
And if u read the Sandrachameleon blog,that is lots of great info that I use for mine too,be patience cause experience are build with the knowledge u learn base on what you using,we can only give you our suggestions,but at the end,you are your own person to decide if is useful for your own needs,I learn alot of great info in this forum and I take whats useful for me to imply in my own situation,im still learning till this day
As far as the stick bugs,if u meant for the walking stick,you can check with your local and state/provincial regulations to see if they are legal since lots state doent even allowed them as a pet.
And u will have to raise the temperature on your cricket keeper to around 80F to 90F,I use a 40watts bulb since my cham room are constantly around 80F degree,so depending on ur room temperature,u can play with the light bulb wattage.
And if u read the Sandrachameleon blog,that is lots of great info that I use for mine too,be patience cause experience are build with the knowledge u learn base on what you using,we can only give you our suggestions,but at the end,you are your own person to decide if is useful for your own needs,I learn alot of great info in this forum and I take whats useful for me to imply in my own situation,im still learning till this day
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ya the thoughts of breeding has crossed my mind and the crickets are needed for that I guess. However I have been searching high and low for that as well. there has to be other options the size of pinheads smaller roaches ect. Banna roaches are much smaller than Dubia not sure the babys size, though. I will find something however.
Or why not just keep them on FF till they can eat Dubia? I understand they will get mixed in if you have all the babies in a big cage. However for me, I been thinking about that being a possibility in the future. If I do do it, then it will be with a custom rack enclosure, with 8 or 10 cages. That way I can split baby's up by age. So I thought I could do Like 6 feet wide, that would give me 17 inches or 14 inches (depending on the 4 or 5) wide each. Then do the depth the same way and maybe 20 inches tall each, Then using two of LYR 6 foot tube ballasts, (they use 4 36inch t5ho bulbs each) that would be more than a enough for basking. With just the UVB and grow light or something going. I would likely do 8, that way I could have each light on a switch and be able to turn the lights on for 2 cages at a time, so no wasted power
.I know the best is to have each in there own cage, and that 1 cage is doable but not ideal. So I figured I would meet in the middle, have like 3-8 per cage (depending how many babys) to somewhat stop bullying.
AFAIK, and its limited. They are illegal across the entire US that is not a state law its US law. You can only own them as a pet IF you have a permit that requires you to be a teacher ect. Unless that has changed in the last few years.
However there is a loophole. It is only illegal to import and own non native species (IE Indian walking sticks). If I go in my backyard and catch some walking sticks, and even breed those there is nothing they can or will do about it. I am lucky to live in Arizona where we do have a native species of walking stick. They grow to about 2 inches long and look a lot like the Indian ones (a lot smaller).
I see them from time to time, not sure if they are asexual though.
And if u read the Sandrachameleon blog,that is lots of great info that I use for mine too,be patience cause experience are build with the knowledge u learn base on what you using,we can only give you our suggestions,but at the end,you are your own person to decide if is useful for your own needs,I learn alot of great info in this forum and I take whats useful for me to imply in my own situation,im still learning till this day
Yep I have read a lot of her blog multiple times
.They out grew the fly thingy,but cricket is currently I use ,never try the banana roaches yet.
How I divided them is not by age but the size ,right now i have 10 container with 78 babies in them , I do keep a breeding log to track the growth chart as what I did for my veiled babies before.
Here you go,u already did ur homework
Aren't sharing n searching the knowledge together a beautiful thing in this forum.Yep I have read a lot of her blog multiple times
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
They out grew the fly thingy,but cricket is currently I use ,never try the banana roaches yet.
How I divided them is not by age but the size ,right now i have 10 container with 78 babies in them , I do keep a breeding log to track the growth chart as what I did for my veiled babies before.
Here you go,u already did ur homework
Aren't sharing n searching the knowledge together a beautiful thing in this forum.
So you cant go Fly > Dubia huh? It has been a very long time since I have seen a pinhead but are dubias babys that much bigger?
I seen a post from Olimpia, she said she hates FF & Crickets so she started using Dubia and Tiny Supers.
I dont know if that was in appropriate context though. However ya I am no go with Pinheads lol, I guess if I had to buy 1000 for a clutch I would but defiantly not breeding them lol.
The new born dubia are still bigger than some of my baby chams mouth,and the reason i wont feed the superworm to the babies is sometimes they will mistaken each other tails for worms thats when the nip tails happen,these are just my own experience.
It usually needs more like 5000 or more in a month just to be sure they have enough food to feed,the pic u saw are one of the 4 cricket containers
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
5000, for how many babys? You dont buy 5k at once though do you. surely they wont be pinheads at the end of a month lol.
Also yes I read that about the babys tail nipping. I wouldn't use worms either was just saying she says she did.
For 78 I am sure lol, thats alot of babys
. However ya, if I do go the breeding route. I will just have tubs on standby for the PHs and just buy them.Remember pinhead is just a tiny dot,as the crickets grows ,chamies babies grows too...appetite grows by what it feeds on,babies growth satisfaction incites demand
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Remember pinhead is just a tiny dot,as the crickets grows ,chamies babies grows too...appetite grows by what it feeds on,babies growth satisfaction incites demand
True, I have been thinking about it. I will likely start a cricket colony. You said there temps need 80-90 right? So if I incorprate a Cricket colony they can use the same flex watt and stat as the dubias eh?
A regular light bulb device will be more efficient,but at night u will need to turn it off since all little crickets comes out at night,if ur room temperature is too low,then you can use a heat emitter to give the crickets some heat,that is my suggestion to u.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Why would a light bulb be more efficient? Do you mean power efficient?
Thing is I have a small room in the "Man Cave" that is going to the be the bug room. The dimensions are 5ft x 7 foot (a tad more). So my plat was 1 72x 24 wire shelf on the long wall, and the short wall having a 5x 14 inch (that would fill the back and side wall in an L). So space for all things bug are kind limited. Forgot to say the roof is 6 foot to 6.5ft slant.
So I dont have a whole ton of horizontal space, so the idea was to be utilize the vertical more. So like on the big rack, Dubias across the whole bottom shelf (like 3 tubs with there 30 inch area stick out unheated). Crickets on the second shelf (3 tubs). Top shelf everything else, with worms in drawers hopefully (if I can devise a spider free way). Isopods in a fish tank, Mantids in another tank plus whatever else I decide to breed. with some of the small shelf being used but thats mostly for storage.
So do they need a light bulb? I would rather not give them a Bulb, if that is better for them then I will have to provide but if they dont "Need it" then I would rather go with the tape.
Edit: What I may actually do, as I look more
. Is do one strip of 12 inch flex watt, About 5 inches from the back maybe 4, This will give me 12 inches heated. that I would think would raise the temps in maybe half the tub (a little more) thats where the egg crates go. The food area, is off the lip of the shelf. This allows me to change food and water without actually pulling the tub out. Anyway I could actually use, 3.8 tubs like that. So If I did that, I could have my 2 roach colony's on the bottom (breeders and fast growth) as well as my Breeders and PHs (with pinheads having a slightly smaller tub) So everything there would be heated, and do so with at most 60 watts of power.
Last edited:
It all depends on what type of crickets are you going to raise.Camel crickets do not like light but house crickets and field crickets do for their day and night cycle.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Okay that is good to know. What I will likely do then is use Clear totes for the Cirx, As there will be lighting in the room. As the other insects that want day/night.
A better question that I can not find an answer too. Do grasshoppers have PHs as well? I would much rather deal with Grass Hoppers.
Nevermind seems like GH breed very slowly
. I will find a replacement for pinheads lol. If I could find a better staple and just order 1000 or 2000 PHs for a clutch that would be great. The noise and the smell is just too much.
Last edited:
