Hunger Strike/Possible Protozoans? PLEASE LOOK!

[Nicodemayo]

My 5 month old Ambilobe Male Panther has been on a feeding strike for the past 5 days or so and im keeping a close eye on him. He doesn't want anything to do with crickets but the good part is that he is eating a few super worms in the morning but he wont eat them out of his dish, only out of my hands. He has also been eating phoenix worms if i put them on the leaves of his shefflera. Yesterday he didnt eat anything at all but today he had 4 super worms that were gut loaded and had just molted. Basically what im trying to say is hes being really really picky. Me being obsessed to my chams didnt want to risk anything so i made a vet appointment tomorrow at 2 for him and my female veiled thats a fat ass cause i think shes gravid even though shes only 3.5 months old (pacing bottom of cage and showing some gravid coloration at times). ANYWAYS, my panthers activity levels are staying up, hes still very strong, alway climbing up and down his cage in the day, basking, and drinking tons of water, but the only irregular thing is his eating habits. Im hoping hes just going through a little seasonal thing. One very strange characteristic is that he is constantly WANTING OUT OF HIS CAGE. I'll open the door and he'll come right to the front vine, waiting for me to stick my hand out and he'll get right on me. I know most people would pay for their chams to do this, but since he normally doesn't do this im kinda confused as to what is going on. His poo looks normal with the exception of size. Also i have read that parasites can cause a strong odor to the poo. How strong is it? Cause when i get within 6 inches or so of the poo i can smell it. But i don't know how strong the odor is supposed to be. PLEASE anyone who has been through the same things as im seeing, please post, I want to see what other people have to say about this.

 

[dodolah]

Hey Nico. It is always better to do a fecal test when you are in doubt.
better catch those thing early in the game.
Stinky poo and restlessness can be a symptom of parasites.
I am currently battling coccidia and nematodes (my cham got it from the crickets that i bought from a new store )
So, in my opinion, you should have the fecal checked.

 

[spatulars]

My 4.5/5 month old has been acting really weird lately too. He hasn't stopped eating crickets, but he has stopped drinking off of leaves and started running away from the water. He's healthier than ever now, gaining weight everyday, eating out of my hands now... and then today I walked up to him and he was puffed up and displaying angrily at nothing! So I asked him what on Earth he was doing and of course he didn't answer me, he can't talk. I still have no idea WHY he was doing that. Bizarre.

Sorry, it really isn't the same thing, but I think it's equally strange. He has never done that before.

 

[Nicodemayo]

Hey Nico. It is always better to do a fecal test when you are in doubt.
better catch those thing early in the game.
Stinky poo and restlessness can be a symptom of parasites.
I am currently battling coccidia and nematodes (my cham got it from the crickets that i bought from a new store )
So, in my opinion, you should have the fecal checked.

Yeah im definitely getting a fecal check done on him. I have a piece of his poo in a plastic bag but if he poops tomorrow before the appointment i'll use that one instead. Yesterday he pooped and it had a whole pheonix worm in it. What treatment are you using for the coccidia and nematodes? Baytril?

 

[dodolah]

baytril is for URI.
Albon and Panacur are the prescriptions given by my vet.
Overnight poop is not as accurate as the fresh one.
If possible, get the fresh one tomorrow.

 

[Nicodemayo]

i will. As for treatment, what would you say the average recovery time would be(if hes even infected)? Is it hard to administer treatment?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

A fecal check never hurts.
I think it's interesting that you say he's been on a feeding strike, and then list all the food he's eaten the past few days, every day.
I don't like phoenix worms for chameleons because of how difficult they are to digest. Finding a whole one in the poo is no surprise. I would be more surprised to learn that you hadn't found every single one whole and undigested.
I think the vet will find that there is absolutely nothing wrong, but (again) a wellness and fecal check is never a bad idea.

-Brad

 

[dodolah]

i will. As for treatment, what would you say the average recovery time would be(if hes even infected)? Is it hard to administer treatment?

well.. you should not jump to conclusion too soon.
As far as administering the treatment, it should be easy.
The treatment for Panacur is usually about 3 to 5 treatment once every 2 weeks.
and Albon is 5 days straight and coninue again after 2 weeks.
This treatment unfortunately quite strong.
It kills the parasites (except Albon) and the beneficial bacteria.

My cham has stopped eating for 5 days straight after the Albon treatment.
If he still won't eat, i'll have to force feed.
He also won't drink. So, he get a shower treatment every day now.
The Albon treatment will continue 2 weeks from now. And Panacur will begin in a week.

@#$%$@! all this from crickets at a reptile store.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

@#$%$@! all this from crickets at a reptile store.

Have you determined for sure that this was the cause?

-Brad

 

[dodolah]

Have you determined for sure that this was the cause?

-Brad

Not exactly a 100% sure; but, definitely, a huge possibility.
Because the last fecal check was done 2 weeks ago (with negative result)
And the fecal check before that was a month ago (also with negative result).
I have completed 4 fecal check since October. (I did them once a month)
I know that's a bit too much.. but I get 2 test for free -i say why not-.
And the fecal check for february 1st reveal that my chameleon has coccidia AND traces of nematodes.

So, the parasites can only come during that 2 weeks before february 1st.
And the only thing that changes from my chameleon care is the crickets from this new store.
(Unless if certain online insect suppliers, which i will not disclose the name since i trust them with their sanitary, send me infected silkworms).

I religiously clean my cage with bleach solution at least once a week.
(During his sunning outside time) -I have a spare cage which i also clean with bleach everytime i finish using). Since I feed sikworms as staple feeders, I also need to practice cleanliness for my silkies.

I use nitrile gloves everytime I need to handle my chameleon.
My chameleon also do not have access to eat soil.
I cover the dirt with white canvas and on top of that a river smooth rock.
Plus, no poops ever let in the cage overnight

I manage to avoid parasites infestation for 7 months and I buy crickets (2 weeks ago) and suddenly my chameleon get nematodes AND coccidia..
the cycle just seems to match.
Actually, next week or so, i'll probably visit the reptile store and see their reptiles.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Two weeks seems awfully quick for them to appear ... especially the nematodes.
Coccidia is more prevalent in warm environments that are overly humid. It was mentioned on another thread that bleach will not kill the oocysts.
It's possible ( I think probable) that the parasite(s) were introduced much further back than 2 weeks ago.

Wow ... you clean your enclosures ALOT!
Kitty's enclosure was last cleaned in August.

-Brad

 

[OldChamKeeper]

All chams at some point refuse a feeder item they used to eat regulary, it's how they got the reputation for being picky. I regulary rotate my food items.

Butterworms
Waxworms
Superworms
Crickets
Hornworms
Flies
Young Dubia roaches
Silkworms
The occasional kaydid, mantis, or grasshopper.


Parasites are a fact of keeping reptiles, regular fecals are mandatory.

Personally what you described doesn't alarm me but I'd do the fecals and switch out his food items to where he doesn't see any crickets for two weeks. He'll most likely be happy to see them after two weeks.

Hope that helps

 

[Nicodemayo]

I was planning on getting fecal tests done. Also Brad when i say feeding strike, i mean to say he isnt eating nearly as much as he normally does. He'll eat a few supers and some phoenix worms if im lucky. Today he wont eat anything but yesterday he had 4 molted super worms.

 

[dodolah]

Two weeks seems awfully quick for them to appear ... especially the nematodes.
Coccidia is more prevalent in warm environments that are overly humid. It was mentioned on another thread that bleach will not kill the oocysts.
It's possible ( I think probable) that the parasite(s) were introduced much further back than 2 weeks ago.

Wow ... you clean your enclosures ALOT!
Kitty's enclosure was last cleaned in August.

-Brad

the vet says that he find a minimal trace for them in the fecal.
and it's not something that should be overly worried about.
But, he does not want to take a chance and wait till it become overly uncontrollable.
so, he prescribed me both meds.

The cleaning routine should not be too stressful for him.
I basically take him out to sun bask once every 2 days.
I clean the indoor cage when he's sunning outside.
and I clean the outdoor cage when he's inside.
The outdoor cage is a simple enclosure. So it won't be too hard to reconstruct the same environment. (it is just filled with 1 large ficus)
The indoor cage are pretty much attached to the cage (vines and stuff).
The only movable things are his drainage tubs and potted plants.
Since parasites become an issue, i will start stripping the cage to a simple bushy ficus/ or hibiscus slowly so that i do not freak him too much.

I'm getting a steamer now to minimalized reinfestation risk

 

[Nicodemayo]

Well just got back from the vet and Oscar has SMALL traces of protozoan cysts in the fecal matter. He prescribed me Metronidazole (flagyl) and for the next 4 days i am to give him .75ml by mouth and i'll be bringing back some poo for another fecal check at the end of the month. I attached the image of the vet bill and description below.

 

[Nicodemayo]

Just as an update, oscars doing fine. He isnt loosing wait but he is getting quite dehydrated and im sure its because the treatment might be pretty intense on him. Im giving him .75ml doses of Flagyl once a day and ive done it for 3 days so 2 more days of treatment left. Yesterday i opened his mouth and placed a molted superworm on his mouth with some calcium with d3 and as soon as it hit his lips he munched it right up. Every once and awhile i use they syringe to give him water too. This morning his eyes were big and bulbious but they were kinda saggy. Not the skin but the eyeball itself. This was right after he woke up so im assuming it was because of that cause i left for a few hours and theyre back to normal now. But his eyes are open and alert and hes still very active and strong. I'll keep posting updates and PLEASE anyone experienced with this scenario i would live to hear some pointers or suggestions.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Do you have any silkworms?
In addition to being a great feeder they can really help with hydration.

-Brad

 

[Nicodemayo]

I dont. I know they're a great feeder and have been known to break hunger strikes. I was actually thinking about that this morning. I've been planning on ordering the eggs and hatching them but i'll probably order the cups with like 50 worms and chow just to try them out.

 

[Nicodemayo]

I went to the vet to get a follow up fecal check and Oscar is CLEAN! Hallelujah!

 

[dodolah]

great to hear.
Now, the toughest job follows..
which is to avoid reinfestation.
make sure you clean the cage real good.