I am back and he is still hurting!!

gabeb3

New Member
Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
o I believe my cham is a Yemeni or Veiled, his name is JJ, he is a male, and I am not quite sure how old he is, but I got him when he was the size of my index finger. My guess was he was 3 months when I got him. Which was 3 months ago, so he has been in my care for 3 months. and should be 6months old.
o
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
o Not very often but prob more then he should- 1-2 times/week, no more!
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
o Mostly crickets and superworms. Have fed him meal worms when he was younger. Now crickets and superworms. Right before he was showing signs of illness he was eating between 3-4 superworms and prob between 2-3 crickets a day. the crickets i would dust every other feeding. no gut loading. tried and failed wasnt sure how to hope i didn't poison him. it is not the gut-loading that I am worried about it is the crickets. sometimes they would look a little ragged.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
o The brand is “Zoo Meds” reptivite-reptile vitamins with d3. Ultra fine super stick formula. White chalky powder substance.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
o I use a “Little Dripper” and I add a “Zoo Meds” new improved Reptisafe instant terrarium water conditioner. I mist him twice a day once after he has basked for an hour or two and then again depending on weather conditions sometimes twice to three times.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
o No. He has had the same looking fecal matter from essentially the day I got him until recently when, a few days prior he stopped eating or significantly decreased his food intake. After the day or so of decreased appetite his fecal matter was a little more runny, deff not as much of it in general and appeared to be a greenish color, as opposed to his droppings that I had been observing for sometime, which looked gray and slimy diff clumps that would eventually dry to hardened brown. his urate was a yellowish color a couple times but w adequate misting and the dripper i was able to get it back to a white urate. do they eat again if they get sick and stop? and obviously this hs to do w the problem, but at what percent would you say they survive a shock such as this?? Thanks.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
o Yes, first, I love him dearly and that may be the prob because I am tending to him a little to much but they are so delicate it seems to be a very fine line that must b pursued w Grace I guess. I am learning that, and have made adjustments in how I have been around him trying to almost hide at times. However, that being said, I posted an emergency post a couple days ago at first signs of change. Since then I have taken him out of his old cage and built him something 4’ tall x 2’ x 2’. I built this out of pvc and screen. I have two live plants and have cleaned and transferred the old artificial ones as well. I still have some adjustments to make I know!  neway, I hope this is adequate and can provide the assistance that u amazing cham lovers at this forum need to help my little “JJ”.


Cage Info:
• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
o PVC 4’x2’x2’ with a screen mesh common to the screen found on front doors.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
o He has an R-Zilla low profile T-5 fixture. That is a long white bulb that puts off light and minimal heat. For uva and uvb I think. Also, I have 2 heat bulbs that I switch in and out of a housing(due to financial restraints) I have not yet bought another hood. However he does get the blue or daytime heat when he wakes up and when I turn his light off and his red bulb on at night he will climb to his safe spot and fall asleep, usually if there is no commotion, very quickly. He, even through this winter would always sleep opposite the heat. He is on a 8-8 schedule.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
o This is a brand new cage I built yesterday and am waiting to b able to afford the better thermometer, right now I only have a strip thermometer that works but is cheap and from what it sounds like there should prob b three top, basking, bottom…? And maybe better quality ones as well.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
o I spray the entire cage with a whole mini water bottle twice a day. My girlfriend does it when I can not. Have never missed the lights and the water spray!! Also the humidity gauge is another thing that is on my list to purchase. It seems like the most common mistakes are the ones people don’t anticipate. Mainly the dimensions and air free cage IS A MUST!! And the lights temp and HUMIDITY and drinking!!
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
o Yes, Just bought them this is his second night to sleep on them. 1 has larger leaves and I believe it is a Pothos and so is the smaller 1. I believe the smaller 1 is a golden pothos.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
o The cage is in the corner of the room and is 4 ½ feet tall. Not much traffic we are gone a lot and whe we are home we are pretty quiet.
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
o Los Angeles, Ca. not on the coast. Hollywood area, if that helps but not by the ocean. And not arid inland!
• Current problem- The current problem is that I have recently built him a new cage and he still isn’t eating. How do I get him to start eating again? Also, if this was the problem(The cage) and I fixed it right away will he begin eating again? If not what do I expect next? PLEASE PLEASE help!!
I would just like to say thank you to whoever reads this and that this site has been a huge help!! and -Sticky Brad- ur the Man!
Thank you, Gabriel and JJ
 

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IMHO you need to get him to a vet ASAP.

You said you use reptivite-reptile vitamins with d3...how often? IMHO you are giving it too much D3. D3 from supplements can build up in the system. Reptivite also has prEformed vitamin A which can also build up in the system. Read about the supplements below.

You said that after the day or so of decreased appetite his fecal matter was a little more runny and appeared to be green in nature...greener than normal? If so I think I would get a fecal done.

What was the temperature in the basking area of the old cage? The rest of the cage? At night?

Is he still hanging with his head down near the floor?
------------------------
Exposure to proper UVB, appropriate temperatures, supplements, a supply of well-fed/gutloaded insects, water and an appropriate cage set-up are all important for the well-being of your chameleon.

Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption. Temperatures needed can vary with the species and age. For hatchling panthers I keep the temperature in the warmest area in the low 80's. For older panthers I keep it in the mid to high 80's for the most part.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
Any of the above links that have the word "archive" can be accessed through the WayBackMachine if they don't work.

Also..just a suggestion...if you are posting about the same chameleon and the same problem its best to keep it all in one thread. It makes it easier for us to follow the "story".
 
Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
o I believe my cham is a Yemeni or Veiled, his name is JJ, he is a male, and I am not quite sure how old he is, but I got him when he was the size of my index finger. My guess was he was 3 months when I got him. Which was 3 months ago, so he has been in my care for 3 months. and should be 6months old.
o
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
o Not very often but prob more then he should- 1-2 times/week, no more!
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
o Mostly crickets and superworms. Have fed him meal worms when he was younger. Now crickets and superworms. Right before he was showing signs of illness he was eating between 3-4 superworms and prob between 2-3 crickets a day. the crickets i would dust every other feeding. no gut loading. tried and failed wasnt sure how to hope i didn't poison him. it is not the gut-loading that I am worried about it is the crickets. sometimes they would look a little ragged.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
o The brand is “Zoo Meds” reptivite-reptile vitamins with d3. Ultra fine super stick formula. White chalky powder substance.as kinyonga said reptivite should be used sparingly. pick yourself up some plain phos/free calcium to dust every feeding, calcium w/d3 twice a month, and a multivitamin to dust once a month along with once a month reptivite.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
o I use a “Little Dripper” and I add a “Zoo Meds” new improved Reptisafe instant terrarium water conditioner. I mist him twice a day once after he has basked for an hour or two and then again depending on weather conditions sometimes twice to three times.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
o No. He has had the same looking fecal matter from essentially the day I got him until recently when, a few days prior he stopped eating or significantly decreased his food intake. After the day or so of decreased appetite his fecal matter was a little more runny, deff not as much of it in general and appeared to be a greenish color, as opposed to his droppings that I had been observing for sometime, which looked gray and slimy diff clumps that would eventually dry to hardened brown. his urate was a yellowish color a couple times but w adequate misting and the dripper i was able to get it back to a white urate. do they eat again if they get sick and stop? and obviously this hs to do w the problem, but at what percent would you say they survive a shock such as this?? Thanks.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
o Yes, first, I love him dearly and that may be the prob because I am tending to him a little to much but they are so delicate it seems to be a very fine line that must b pursued w Grace I guess. I am learning that, and have made adjustments in how I have been around him trying to almost hide at times. However, that being said, I posted an emergency post a couple days ago at first signs of change. Since then I have taken him out of his old cage and built him something 4’ tall x 2’ x 2’. I built this out of pvc and screen. I have two live plants and have cleaned and transferred the old artificial ones as well. I still have some adjustments to make I know!  neway, I hope this is adequate and can provide the assistance that u amazing cham lovers at this forum need to help my little “JJ”.


Cage Info:
• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
o PVC 4’x2’x2’ with a screen mesh common to the screen found on front doors.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
o He has an R-Zilla low profile T-5 fixture. That is a long white bulb that puts off light and minimal heat. For uva and uvb I think. Also, I have 2 heat bulbs that I switch in and out of a housing(due to financial restraints) I have not yet bought another hood. However he does get the blue or daytime heat when he wakes up and when I turn his light off and his red bulb on at night he will climb to his safe spot and fall asleep, usually if there is no commotion, very quickly. He, even through this winter would always sleep opposite the heat. He is on a 8-8 schedule.most here are against zilla products and i have no experience with them to give any advice. i personally use reptiglo or reptisuns 5.0 linear tube. what wattage is the day light basking bulb? how far is it from the basking site? whats your ambient room temps?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
o This is a brand new cage I built yesterday and am waiting to b able to afford the better thermometer, right now I only have a strip thermometer that works but is cheap and from what it sounds like there should prob b three top, basking, bottom…? And maybe better quality ones as well.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
o I spray the entire cage with a whole mini water bottle twice a day. My girlfriend does it when I can not. Have never missed the lights and the water spray!! Also the humidity gauge is another thing that is on my list to purchase. It seems like the most common mistakes are the ones people don’t anticipate. Mainly the dimensions and air free cage IS A MUST!! And the lights temp and HUMIDITY and drinking!!
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
o Yes, Just bought them this is his second night to sleep on them. 1 has larger leaves and I believe it is a Pothos and so is the smaller 1. I believe the smaller 1 is a golden pothos.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
o The cage is in the corner of the room and is 4 ½ feet tall. Not much traffic we are gone a lot and whe we are home we are pretty quiet.
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
o Los Angeles, Ca. not on the coast. Hollywood area, if that helps but not by the ocean. And not arid inland!
• Current problem- The current problem is that I have recently built him a new cage and he still isn’t eating. How do I get him to start eating again? Also, if this was the problem(The cage) and I fixed it right away will he begin eating again? If not what do I expect next? PLEASE PLEASE help!!
I would just like to say thank you to whoever reads this and that this site has been a huge help!! and -Sticky Brad- ur the Man!
Thank you, Gabriel and JJ

runny poo is not good and usually sign of other problems. a vet visit would be a great thing to do if you can afford it. you have a few factors into his declining appetite and one is as important as another. 1)proper gut load. this is very easy to do. use any vegetable you have around the house or fruit. let your crickets eat this 24 hours before feeding. 2) proper dusting, ive given you a regiment in the quote. 3)proper lighting 4)proper basking temps . 5) he is new to his cage so he will need some time to acclimate. great job on the cage. try throwing in some more vines, sticks, foliage to help his feel more secure in his enviroment. in return he will become secure much quicker.
 
I don't think you understand that chams are rather fragile

BIG PROBLEM NOTICED:

What you've been doing is giving him vitamins 15 times a month, instead of 2 times a month--definitely bad.
A phosphorus free, plain calcium powder should be used regularly, not vitamins and not with D3--please read Kinyongas post
for the important details on how often to use plain calcium, calcium with D3 and vitamin powder.

Now your cham has stopped eating, is acting lethargic and sleeps with his head down.
Those are symptoms of illness.
Chams try to hide illnesses, as a natural defense.
When they can no longer hide the fact that they're sick, they are very sick.
That is why experienced cham keepers tell others to get their chams to a vet right away (who has alot of experience with chams), when a cham shows signs of illness.
When chams get sick, they need a vet right away or they die.


4 people have already told you this and I will tell you the same thing:
Take your cham to a knowledgeable vet with cham experience.

Nobody likes to spend money if they don't have to, but if you want to help your cham, then you need to get him to a vet without further delay.
That is part of loving your cham and you said ,"Yes, first, I love him dearly ".
Jannb even provided a link to posts about good cham vets:https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/
Don't leave out details of how he had been cared for, because the details of his past care will help the vet to correctly determine the problem/problems.
You can begin by stating that you now now things were wrong.

Additionally, temperature and humidity are very important.
Too much or too little of either is no good.
If I am not mistaken, chams can see red light and a ceramic heater that emits no light should be used, instead of a red light at night.
Only during the day do you want a heat source that emits light.
In both cases, they need to be close enough to provide proper heat but far enough out of reach to prevent burns.

I hope you do get him to the vet and that your cham recovers.
 
Thx Ataraxia! I will do all these things and have done most. I have put in more plants and vines, Also, I can not afford to stop using the Zilla light right away asmy funds are limited.
I have a specific Question- The cheap heat bulbs were burning out and not putting off to much heat. So what I did is buy a 60 watt heat emitter. he layed under it on the second day but I feel it is just a lot for him right now. Is it true what they say that reptiles are very resilieant? What are the percentages that my cham will live if I make all the proper adjustments/ and how long can they go w/o eating? and how long can they go w/o eating and then begin to eat again?? Thanks, I app your help.
 
it really depends on how healthy they were before the strike. take the heat emitter back and buy a pack of regular house bulbs for your basking spot. i would suggest 60-75 watt. you will have to test to see which will provide you with the best results. most reptiles go to bright white light to bask in.
 
thank you, this has also helped me ! i have to purchase calcium / calcium w/d / and multivitamins...

i have the reptivite and i didnt realize that vitamin a was there, this could explain her swollen gular area....the petco recommended it ! and they used it (w/d3) DAILY before i got her...definitely going to order from one of our sponsors !

thank you !
 
thanks for the post, ya pet co, so basically everything that the people told me has turned out to b false or in someway harmful to my little guy i am so sad!! I just want him to start eating asap!!
 
Turn off the Zilla light and get him out in to the sun! you live in Los Angeles. I am sure it is relatively warm there and sunny. Take his cage outdoors if you have to and get him some good, natural UVB!
 
Thx Ataraxia! I will do all these things and have done most. I have put in more plants and vines, Also, I can not afford to stop using the Zilla light right away asmy funds are limited.
I have a specific Question- The cheap heat bulbs were burning out and not putting off to much heat. So what I did is buy a 60 watt heat emitter. he layed under it on the second day but I feel it is just a lot for him right now. Is it true what they say that reptiles are very resilieant? What are the percentages that my cham will live if I make all the proper adjustments/ and how long can they go w/o eating? and how long can they go w/o eating and then begin to eat again?? Thanks, I app your help.

a healthy adult cham (which you do not have) can go for weeks at a time without eating. I have seen people on here who have had chameleons not eat for three weeks and start eating again and they are ok. You have a 6 month old who is still growing and is obviously ill on top of things so in your case, Your chameleon is not going to be able to go for weeks without eating.
 
k went to the store and bought a 75 and a 60 I have put the 75 in first but he is just still in the upper corner in staring down at it. but wont go to it.
 
I like these boards for this very reason....tons of great info in here already :)

Others have pretty much told you what you need to know, I would just like to add:

I would highly recommend you dish out $25 and buy a Temperature Gun (the little device you can just point and it will tell you the surface temp of what you pointed it at immediately). It will make your life MUCH easier, especially if you care for multiple animals.


@Gabe: just putting in a bigger light does you no good if you have clue what the temperatures are....what is your ambient temp / basking temp ? maybe its too hot directly under it so he is to the side. What color is he?? In my experience, generally speaking darker colors means they are cold/stressed, but if he is in the upper corner and he is NOT dark, then he is prob ok temperature wise (i can't emphasize how important it is to have a good ACCURATE, digital, thermometer!
 
@Ataraxia- he was really healthy before the strike! And thank goodness to all of your advice help and my changes he seems to b stabalizing. he has come to the common houshold 75 watt to bask!!!Thanks again? Is there anyway that you can friend me or something so that I may be able to ask just u a question at time? I am not that familiar with this site and u seem to be very helpful and understand my situation? thanks again!




@Carol i have no problem w taking him into the sun. I have several times before. yes it has been a very mild winter in Los Angeles, and the sun has been out a lot. However it was raining for a week straight until today. Not sure if I want to take him out into the sun today when he is just now acclimating to his new care. Will the sun benifit him more or will it be worse to disturb him again at this point??
 
@ Evil Thanks for your post. And I will deff start looking into the guns! first hearing of them but they make so much sense!!! I figured out what privates major malfunction was w the light.
He was ill, I had just put him in a new cage, i wass testing these diff heating aparatusus. he was just confused.
You will be happy to know that today he looks great and is basking under the 75 watt! Basking temp 90*/95* I am very happy. I know I am not out of the woods yet. now I need him to regain his appetite!!
Please send any info that you might have from previous similar situations. I am open to all suggestions!!
 
nothing can beat the sun. I would take him out every chance I could, especially if he has not been feeling well. If you want to send someone a message privately then click on their user name. It will ask you if you want to send someone a private message and then just click and then and you will be able to figure out what to do after that.
 
Thank you Carol, I will take him out asap! That makes sense! I checked the weather and wed and thurs are going to b sunny and 70* Thanks again to everyone that helps and has all the knowledge! What light do you reccomend for uva/b (brand name and wattage)? Also where do i purchase these lights?? Thanks.
 
uvb-the most used and recommended bulb is the Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 linear tube light. UVA-housebulb like you are using. If you cannot find the uvb at the pet store or a reptile store near you you can order one at LLL Reptile on line.
They have like three of four stores in Cali. Don't know if any of them are near you to go buy one in person. http://lllreptile.com/info/company/retail-stores
 
Thank you Carol, this was very helpful!!
Do you have any tips for a misting system? what in your opinion works best? right now I am just misting him by hand with a big bottle of hot water that i put reptivite in.
 
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