I know I'm going to get yelled at for doing this...

[fluxlizard]

You guys are making a mistake using a cricket as your base of comparison.
Crickets are mainly nocturnal, they don't climb trees and bushes much, they are likely not a common food item of chameleons in the wild. In short they are not the natural food item of chameleons.

A study recently cited here on the forums

https://www.chameleonforums.com/chamaeleo-chamaeleon-60740

showed the #1 prey item of chameleons was flies, #2 was bees ants and wasps, #3 was grasshoppers.


Really, you should be comparing nutritional content of flies, bees, ants and wasps and using that as your basis of comparison, not crickets.

I couldn't find anything online about these insects protein content, except that fly larvae have up to 61% protein content, and that adult flies live longer if they can find high protein food sources, and that they prefer these food sources, so it seems logical to guess that maybe the adults also have high protein content. Surely the protein content is known and this kind of guess is innappropriate- I just cannot seem to find it.

The other thing I want to point out is that protein content isn't always measured the same wet vs dry and just want to caution that the same method is used when comparing content. I'm not sure if the 61% for fly larvae is moist or dry content.

I'm not endorsing regular feeding of vertebrate prey, but do believe in very occasional use as a supplement to the diet.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Flux - I see what you're saying, but as we've mentioned it would be highly unlikely that a wild chameleon would even be exposed to a pinky in the wild. So I was taking the approach of comparing captive diets since that's where they'd be exposed to pinkies, and the staple of most captive diets is crickets. So comparing unnatural prey in question to unnatural prey everyone uses to make it most applicable to our chameleons. There's not much use to comparing something they'd never get to a wild cham diet we can't recreate to try to apply that to a totally different diet we can offer. We haven't recreated a natural diet very well from the beginning unfortunately.

 

[Lizardlover]

It almost seems as if you wanted to be bashed? I just don't understand why you would keep bringing it up instead of just saying that you fed off a pinky. Anyways its no big deal as a treat but theres really nothing good to them, they're little blobs of fat.

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

It almost seems as if you wanted to be bashed? I just don't understand why you would keep bringing it up instead of just saying that you fed off a pinky. Anyways its no big deal as a treat but theres really nothing good to them, they're little blobs of fat.

I can assure you I didn't want to be bashed on. Thanks for expressing what you thought.

 

[Montium]

LMAO I guess CA doesn't post here anymore. It seems that plenty of " authorities " have filled the void though lol

 

[kinyonga]

Protein in insects........
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2004/51409/index.html
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=12469&Cr=food&Cr1=security

http://www.food-insects.com/Insects as Human Food.htm

There's a bit of information in this site...
http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Best--Bugs-you-love-to-eat

Maybe its not protein that is causing the gout but fat or a combination of fat and protein? Maybe even the digestion process plays a part?

 

[joneill]

Feeding pinkys is ok but only every now and then, though that looked like a fuzzy which is a bit bigger. Stick to smaller ones which have no hair at all and the body is still pink all over, hence the name.

 

[Elizadolots]

Uric acid comes directly from the breakdown of the amino acids of proteins and that's all it comes from. So it's not just a casual link, it's a big one. And that's the problem I see with it. You are right about fat as well.

Thank you for that information. I'll note that I did not say it was a casual link, I said it might be a causal link, which indeed seems to be the case.

 

[DavidBuchan]

but theres really nothing good to them, they're little blobs of fat.

Nonsense - they clearly have bones, brains and all other internal organs present. I was hoping to end the debate by mentioning that pygmy mouse idea. Adult mice are better. insects must be the staple of course.

 

[sdheli420]

She took a nice big lovely poop after so Im assuming she had no problem

haha.."lovley" sheesh..

anything once is ok in my book..just a treat

 

[sdheli420]

You guys are making a mistake using a cricket as your base of comparison.
Crickets are mainly nocturnal, they don't climb trees and bushes much, they are likely not a common food item of chameleons in the wild. In short they are not the natural food item of chameleons.

A study recently cited here on the forums

https://www.chameleonforums.com/chamaeleo-chamaeleon-60740

showed the #1 prey item of chameleons was flies, #2 was bees ants and wasps, #3 was grasshoppers.


Really, you should be comparing nutritional content of flies, bees, ants and wasps and using that as your basis of comparison, not crickets.

I couldn't find anything online about these insects protein content, except that fly larvae have up to 61% protein content, and that adult flies live longer if they can find high protein food sources, and that they prefer these food sources, so it seems logical to guess that maybe the adults also have high protein content. Surely the protein content is known and this kind of guess is innappropriate- I just cannot seem to find it.

The other thing I want to point out is that protein content isn't always measured the same wet vs dry and just want to caution that the same method is used when comparing content. I'm not sure if the 61% for fly larvae is moist or dry content.

I'm not endorsing regular feeding of vertebrate prey, but do believe in very occasional use as a supplement to the diet.

sounds like good info..however these arent wild chameleons, and have been captive bred on crickets..so technically for over 30 years they HAVE been there "natural" food source..so to compare the food we have been feeding them and raising them on for many many many years i think is a correct assumption..

p.s. they are just lil bags of fat, lol

also personally, i would never want my cham to eat a bee (the pollen is rad for them, but stinger could mean death ) i just sprinkle pollent on my crickets salad..