I know we're not supposed to mix chams and frogs but...

[chrisdaviscentennial]

So I'm currently in the process of buying a new cage for my iguana. I'll be getting a custom cage from CustomCages.com. It will be 60"H x 48"L x 36"D and will have holes strategically placed for ventilation. However, when my iguana outgrows the cage in a few years, I would like to repurpose it to make two enclosures by putting up a custom built wall (so I would have two cages with the dimensions 60"H x 24"L x 36"D). In one of these cages, I would like to keep a panther chameleon and a few reed frogs (heterixalus madagascariensis). Considering both species inhabit the same part of Madagascar, the size of the cage, and the naturalization I plan to incorporate into the enclosure (native plants, water feature, representative temps/humidity, maybe even accurate day/night/seasonal schedules), I hope that housing these two together would be possible. This is really inspired by biotopes. What are people's thoughts on this? Is this a pipe dream or does anyone think this is do-able?

 

[leedragon]

Don´t do it. It´s better to get a terrarium for each animal, or atleast for the chameleon.

 

[nightanole]

I think the panther is going to have a really expensive snack. "if it moves, and can fit in my mouth, it maybe food".

 

[jamest0o0]

Not experienced with the frogs and I'm not totally against the idea other than thinking the frogs may get eaten, but the cage you mention actually isn't that big. I have a 10ft x 12ft outdoor for my Parsons chameleon atm even though he's young still and only about the size of a large adult panther... if I had frogs anywhere in there other than burrowed in the soil. He'd find them and eat them that day. Also if you want to go for a serious water feature and tropical set up, maybe consider a montane species. They'd be more at home in an enclosure like that.

 

[todd2010]

Not experienced with the frogs and I'm not totally against the idea other than thinking the frogs may get eaten, but the cage you mention actually isn't that big. I have a 10ft x 12ft outdoor for my Parsons chameleon atm even though he's young still and only about the size of a large adult panther... if I had frogs anywhere in there other than burrowed in the soil. He'd find them and eat them that day. Also if you want to go for a serious water feature and tropical set up, maybe consider a montane species. They'd be more at home in an enclosure like that.

We really need to hang out! Lol

 

[leedragon]

Not experienced with the frogs and I'm not totally against the idea other than thinking the frogs may get eaten, but the cage you mention actually isn't that big. I have a 10ft x 12ft outdoor for my Parsons chameleon atm even though he's young still and only about the size of a large adult panther... if I had frogs anywhere in there other than burrowed in the soil. He'd find them and eat them that day. Also if you want to go for a serious water feature and tropical set up, maybe consider a montane species. They'd be more at home in an enclosure like that.

nahh waterfeatures and temporal gands don´t mis well, daygeckos would be a better option for that. They would even dive for snails in water.

 

[jamest0o0]

nahh waterfeatures and temporal gands don´t mis well, daygeckos would be a better option for that. They would even dive for snails in water.

When I say serious water feature, i mean one with filtration that rivals that of a reef aquarium and regular maintenance. I have yet to see any cham keepers with this. I also would expect it's main function to be humidity, not so much a drinking source. Why would this be a problem for temporal glands if foggers are alright(which most likely grow bacteria pretty fast)? And if he wants to go *very big*, Parsons are a montane species that do not have temporal glands. I've heard they are found near streams pretty often as well.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

The main argument against keeping multiple animals in one enclosure is that compromises must be made so neither usually gets exactly what they need. But since you say they have the exact same environmental needs I don’t see why you couldn’t do it.

Just know that eventually the frogs WILL get eaten!

 

[Twitchet]

I’ve kept my 3 sipaliwini tinc dart frogs with my panther for over a year, works brilliantly, panther fine, doesn’t even look at them when they climb high up in the canopy, frogs mating and laying eggs. Enclosure large enough to provide cool damp and warm dry conditions.

 

[jamest0o0]

I’ve kept my 3 sipaliwini tinc dart frogs with my panther for over a year, works brilliantly, panther fine, doesn’t even look at them when they climb high up in the canopy, frogs mating and laying eggs. Enclosure large enough to provide cool damp and warm dry conditions.

Haven't seen you on here in a long time!

 

[Twitchet]

Haven't seen you on here in a long time!

Hehe! Yes, I’m still here!

 

[Harley510]

i had the same idea with ankles but i’m almost positive chameleons need to be completely alone

Chameleon hanging out with a frog would be badass though

 

[snitz427]

I’ve been kicking around the idea of a few mantellas in one of my panther cages. One has a tongue issue and he’s not the best or most motivates hunter, so I think they stand a chance. I have a large atrium so the size is pretty generous for a few 1” frogs... and the bottom is moderately dense right now. Once it grows in it will be difficult to spot the frogs from the higher branches, especially with lots of hides like cork tubes, large seed pods, etc.

That being said, if he does eat them, that would be a really expensive learning experience.

 

[Twitchet]

I actually find with my darts that they just love to climb, they will spend some of the day climbing all the branches and plants, right up the the very top of the enclosure so I get to see them almost all the time, they became more active when given access to a large enclosure. For them and the laid back panther and for me it’s been very successful. I’m just awaiting froglets!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Have they tried to ride the tree dragon yet?

 

[chrisdaviscentennial]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! My top concern is the panther cham eating the frogs... I've come across people saying that if you mix species and keep them well fed, it tends to not be an issue but who really knows.

As for concerns regarding their habitat needs forcing me to make compromises, I don't think that should be an issue. They live in the same habitat in the wild.

As for the potential water feature, it will likely be 10 gallons or less. I'm considering doing it for the aesthetic, the humidity, and the frogs. It will either need a filter or some really well planned water plants. Either way I expect to need to do weekly water changes. Concerns regarding temporal glands and potential infections shouldn't apply to panther chams. I found that only chams of the Trioceros genus. (http://reptileapartment.com/temporal-gland-infection-in-chameleons/)

 

[Carlton]

If these species exist in distinct sections of the same habitat in the wild, remember that the wild is huge. Inhabitants can distribute themselves far and wide. They can also retreat from disturbance caused by other species very easily. Your cage would force the issue. The last thing I'd want to do is risk injuries or stress to captive creatures in my care. Now if you had a small bedroom available.....

 

[GoodKarma19]

I strongly agree with @Carlton - you'd need something much larger than a standard cage (i.e. a room) for safe cohabitation. They may live in the same habitats in the wild, but putting a predator in an enclosed space with potential prey is just asking for trouble in my mind (as well as being unfair to the frogs).

Maybe it's because I have a female, but my panther is absolutely ravenous! Doesn't matter what Lily has available - if she thinks it's food she's all over it. I wouldn't trust her with small amphibians/reptiles for a second! I suppose that it depends, in part, on the individual chameleon's attitude, but I personally wouldn't chance it. Not without an extremely large dedicated space, anyway.

 

[jamest0o0]

OP, he was mentioning the temporal glands in regards to my montane chameleon comment, not about Panthers.

 

[Mawtyplant]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! My top concern is the panther cham eating the frogs... I've come across people saying that if you mix species and keep them well fed, it tends to not be an issue but who really knows.

As for concerns regarding their habitat needs forcing me to make compromises, I don't think that should be an issue. They live in the same habitat in the wild.

As for the potential water feature, it will likely be 10 gallons or less. I'm considering doing it for the aesthetic, the humidity, and the frogs. It will either need a filter or some really well planned water plants. Either way I expect to need to do weekly water changes. Concerns regarding temporal glands and potential infections shouldn't apply to panther chams. I found that only chams of the Trioceros genus. (http://reptileapartment.com/temporal-gland-infection-in-chameleons/)

You right for the temporal, this will not be a problem (but other infection can be but this is not a major concern here! You can't keep them together because your panther will eat the frog, if you want to prevent this by feeder your chameleon enough you will face another problem : your panther will be obese.. and it reduce the "eatingfrogmeter" just a little so he might eat the frog and be obese. if you really wan it to, add a top screen at the Botton of your chaos and at the top of the frogs but.. not an awesome design and will get poopy dirty really quick.

You can try this project but I think this is a waist of time/money and can potentially hurt both animal (make yourself sure the frog you buy is not toxic!