I want to see your mitsio pics.

[Zen Reptiles]

I was Cham Nation's first customer for Mitsio.

I have had my own personal concerns about the purity of the line, never said anything until now though.

I bought a pair (Murcie/Sonya Mufasa/Lexus). The male I received seemed to be Mitsio, had very light aqua blue bars.

The clutch I hatched of theirs, all the males started off blue barred, and are now red bar. They look like red bar Ambilobes. I have seen them fire up a pure yellow, so I know there is Mitsio in there. I have NEVER seen pics of a red barred Mitsio though....

Here's a pic:

Another male from the same clutch:

And what they looked like at 4 months:

Now you can see the blue bars turned into red bars and have stayed red bars. Both those males were born May 2011.


The lines apparently seem to be pure, so whatsup lol. They are nowhere near the pure green like all the Mitsio pics I have seen.

 

[Benton1576]

Lee, I said this before on another thread mate, he is gorgeous but not pure Mitsio by the looks of things. He looks like a few blure bar Ambi ive seen here in Germany. I have never personally seen any blue bars in Mitsio, and ive seen a lot of them as they arent rare over here. In fact, you can pick one up here for around 150 Euro, or 175 for a really good one. Anyway, heres mine taken last month, note the white lips with red lipstick, a good indicator:

 

[Texas Ranger]

Lee, I said this before on another thread mate, he is gorgeous but not pure Mitsio by the looks of things. He looks like a few blure bar Ambi ive seen here in Germany. I have never personally seen any blue bars in Mitsio, and ive seen a lot of them as they arent rare over here. In fact, you can pick one up here for around 150 Euro, or 175 for a really good one. Anyway, heres mine taken last month, note the white lips with red lipstick, a good indicator:

Now that's a mitsio you can send him my way lol.

 

[Jbujarski]

Lee, I said this before on another thread mate, he is gorgeous but not pure Mitsio by the looks of things. He looks like a few blure bar Ambi ive seen here in Germany. I have never personally seen any blue bars in Mitsio, and ive seen a lot of them as they arent rare over here. In fact, you can pick one up here for around 150 Euro, or 175 for a really good one. Anyway, heres mine taken last month, note the white lips with red lipstick, a good indicator:

That red eye is crazy! Real good looking cham you have

 

[Texas Ranger]

Wow that crazy.

I was Cham Nation's first customer for Mitsio.

I have had my own personal concerns about the purity of the line, never said anything until now though.

I bought a pair (Murcie/Sonya Mufasa/Lexus). The male I received seemed to be Mitsio, had very light aqua blue bars.

The clutch I hatched of theirs, all the males started off blue barred, and are now red bar. They look like red bar Ambilobes. I have seen them fire up a pure yellow, so I know there is Mitsio in there. I have NEVER seen pics of a red barred Mitsio though....

Here's a pic:

Another male from the same clutch:

And what they looked like at 4 months:

Now you can see the blue bars turned into red bars and have stayed red bars. Both those males were born May 2011.


The lines apparently seem to be pure, so whatsup lol. They are nowhere near the pure green like all the Mitsio pics I have seen.

 

[Chameleon Nation]

Those look crazy Brock. They were right from the originals from Vince. Also a product of some of his originals. Tracing the line, this will go back to some of the first few in the US.

I was Cham Nation's first customer for Mitsio.

I have had my own personal concerns about the purity of the line, never said anything until now though.

I bought a pair (Murcie/Sonya Mufasa/Lexus). The male I received seemed to be Mitsio, had very light aqua blue bars.

The clutch I hatched of theirs, all the males started off blue barred, and are now red bar. They look like red bar Ambilobes. I have seen them fire up a pure yellow, so I know there is Mitsio in there. I have NEVER seen pics of a red barred Mitsio though....

Here's a pic:

Another male from the same clutch:

And what they looked like at 4 months:

Now you can see the blue bars turned into red bars and have stayed red bars. Both those males were born May 2011.


The lines apparently seem to be pure, so whatsup lol. They are nowhere near the pure green like all the Mitsio pics I have seen.

 

[robmd1]

Drew sense your sayen your gettin new stuff an starting over i guess that means these arnt mitsios an us that got them from you got crosses?

 

[Chameleon Nation]

Quite honestly dont know. Ask the person I got them from.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Not accusing anyone of anything. You guys (Drew & Tamara) were a real pleasure to deal with. I highly doubt any mistakes made were your own and this wouldn't stop me from buying from you again.

I have heard of snake breeders trading stock, and one guy gets shafted with the wrong genetics by the other guy, just so the other guy has a year or two head start when the animals are worth $2,000 instead of $900 by the time the other guy catches up. With snakes, though, you know what you get right away....chams take quite a bit longer to show their true colors.

Maybe this is what happened and you got sent the wrong females?

There is really a huge incentive to be dishonest, and I know some other local dishonest breeders who even go so far as to make up stories about animals bloodlines, when really they were purchased from the local classifieds lol. These breeders also charge double to triple what chams-from-the-breeder are worth. There's potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to be gained from it. A lot of people think there's no money in cham breeding, but one clutch of Nosy Be sold at or under market value makes me over $3,000 and I breed my own food so it's all profit. The FIRST Mitsio and Faly clutches would have fetched $8,000-$10,000 a clutch. 20 babies in a clutch x $500 each = $10k

It's not a coincidence when this same thread was made not so long ago about the Nosy Faly having Nosy Be in them.

That said.....I am very happy with my guys, but will show pics of this clutch to future customers so they are aware they may not be pure Mitsio. I just feel bad I paid over $1200 when all was said and done, and could have got 6 Ambilobes for that price.

 

[Chameleon Nation]

Your Sonya and Murcie clutch was mated at Screameleons then sent to me. They were the first I got so most are out of that pairing. I kept a lot of females from that pairing. So that would make sense.

Not accusing anyone of anything. You guys (Drew & Tamara) were a real pleasure to deal with. I highly doubt any mistakes made were your own and this wouldn't stop me from buying from you again.

I have heard of snake breeders trading stock, and one guy gets shafted with the wrong genetics by the other guy, just so the other guy has a year or two head start when the animals are worth $2,000 instead of $900 by the time the other guy catches up. With snakes, though, you know what you get right away....chams take quite a bit longer to show their true colors.

Maybe this is what happened and you got sent the wrong females?

There is really a huge incentive to be dishonest, and I know some other local dishonest breeders who even go so far as to make up stories about animals bloodlines, when really they were purchased from the local classifieds lol. These breeders also charge double to triple what chams-from-the-breeder are worth. There's potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to be gained from it. A lot of people think there's no money in cham breeding, but one clutch of Nosy Be sold at or under market value makes me over $3,000 and I breed my own food so it's all profit. The FIRST Mitsio and Faly clutches would have fetched $8,000-$10,000 a clutch. 20 babies in a clutch x $500 each = $10k

It's not a coincidence when this same thread was made not so long ago about the Nosy Faly having Nosy Be in them.

That said.....I am very happy with my guys, but will show pics of this clutch to future customers so they are aware they may not be pure Mitsio. I just feel bad I paid over $1200 when all was said and done, and could have got 6 Ambilobes for that price.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

The male I got from you looked WAY more Mitsio than these guys, so if it was the female that was from Screameleons then yeah, that does make sense.

That's really too bad Drew, I hope this reflects poorly on the people who deserve it and not the other way around.

 

[Chameleon Nation]

It really is hard to find good females. I have not had Mitsio babies for some time now. I hope then new group turns out a little better.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

And who knows they are still only 11.5 months old, maybe they will turn solid green in 3 weeks.

 

[clarkrw3]

**I was not asked to edit this post but wanted to to keep this thread open and alive**

I truly feel this is progress in the right direction. We should all be striving to breed individual animals that are the best example of what best represents what makes that specific locale special. These things can and do happen trusting that you are getting what you paid for...and on top of that this is even more possible when trying to establish a CB population of a previously unrepresented locale. In these instances Vince and Drew have to trust the females that come it because there are not any CB females to deal with. In general I feel that once a locale is established WC females should never be used unless you are keeping the offspring for almost a year and can be honest with yourself to prove out that female. New blood should come it (in established locales) as WC males being bred to proven females with photos of brothers from the same clutches on file. JMO

 

[Zen Reptiles]

If this goes back to Vince, then it goes beyond the BOI as it affects many people and big breeders, not just one person who had a bad experience....though of course innocent until proven guilty!

Drew is right to defend himself, I believe he did nothing wrong......there is NO way he could have known until months and months after his animals were gone to new homes.

Really without DNA testing we will never know, but the fact he's trying a new supplier says enough for me, and the fact I've never even seen Screameleons ever post on this forum also says enough for me.

That's all my opinion and all I have to say on the matter, and I'm happy with my Mitsios whether they have Ambilobe or not........they are way sweeter than any red bar Ambilobe I've seen.

 

[Mobproctor]

I want to see everyones chameleon nations mitsios that got imported last year.I want to see what all the brothers look like.
Here is my boy.

Your guy looks very similar to my 6 Months old Ambilobe

 

[Benton1576]

Mistakes happen. The problem is this. You can have the perfect male, buy a female to breed and many months down the line when the babies start to colour up you realise the female is not pure and the babies are displaying traits from another local. The big issue is that you have probably sold lots more from the same bloodline in the mean time, so now potentially hundreds of people have crosses, which in turn they may have been breeding with their females/Males thus increasing the cross breeding. Then theres the dishonest people who will knowingly sell a female from another locale to beat the competition and give them a head start, as previously mentioned.

In Drews defence, and I hope he doesnt mind me saying this, he is looking at importing some nice pure lines from here in Europe, and I am personally doing everything I can to help as I feel theres just too many crosses over there in the US at the moment from all locales. Im not going to play the middle man, Im just pointing people in the right direction and helping out with contacts to help get good lines re-introduced so you guys get what your paying for.

 

[Texas Ranger]

This has been a real good Discussion and what I expect from people ..... There can be discussions with opinions about locales without all the name calling and hurt filling... All it takes is to be truthful and take everything with a grain of salt. Mistakes happen and that is apart of life we all just have to be adults and mature about it all.... This is a good baby step Now if we can apply this to Nosy faly threads and the cb lines out there we will be doing even better.... Thank you all for your opinions and thoughts this is what I like to see from people working with theses amazing animals .....

 

[Texas Ranger]

Mods ....... I am sure there is some things in this thread that may or may not be braking the rules but the solution to this is to not delete the thread..... But to simply remove what words or post are not supost to be there....JMO please do not delete this thread this is great improvement and shows that everyone is growing and getting better everday.

 

[Benton1576]

Mods ....... I am sure there is some things in this thread that may or may not be braking the rules but the solution to this is to not delete the thread..... But to simply remove what words or post are not supost to be there....JMO please do not delete this thread this is great improvement and shows that everyone is growing and getting better everday.

Totally agreed.

Im going to have to take some more pics of mine in a few days, meybe a week as it looks like he is going to shed soon so he is rather dull looking, and angry! lol.