If there were new CITES species quotas?

[showjet95]

European comission gave negative advise for importing Furcifer Campani.
I hope you guys in the US have more luck or the total quota will go to Azia

You already have some anyways! But, Im not sure why Europe wouldnt get any. It seems like you guys are the best breeders and have the best luck with rare stuff...

 

[Montium]

The biggest detriment to any conservation effort is a hungry population. If you can't feed your family you don't care about any animal or beautiful vista all you see is the hunger in your child and you will do whatever you can to solve it. If a business comes in looking for lumber and offers enough food and shelter to the locals they will clear cut a preserve, sell the wood, and start an ineffective farm on the land. Note this is just one example.

Education is of course step 1. I fully agree. But the education should consist of sustainable agriculture and other ways to make a living and feed families in a sustainable way. Once people have clean food and water and an economy that supports basic medical care then you can start on educating more advanced sustainable business practices and the importance and pride of the beautiful wildlife in their home.

Quick fixes like establishing preserves are short term bandaid solutions to stop the bleeding. The human population must then be made to be successful enough that they have leisure time to enjoy the natural world and its value can be deeply appreciated.

Very true. It would be nice if somebody taught them how to raise the chams to sell and re-introduce into the wild. It could be a very big money maker and at the same time make the people want to protect the animals so that folks aren't killing their money maker. Think of how much money they could make raising and selling Radiated Tortoises rather than eating them.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

This is exciting. Thanks for passing along the good news.

I have a another silly question. How would one support conservation on an island on the other side of the world in a place that has very little trade with the US and has an expanding population with limited resources?

Do you think the greater global chameleon community would be willing to donate funds to assist local conservation efforts? Does such an international NGO exist that would leverage the combined power of the tens of thousands very dedicated and knowledgeable Chameleon lovers around the globe? Perhaps even paying for some talented sustainable agriculture experts to hop on a plane and spend 6 months with the small farmers?

Remember to succeed in a conservation program you need to focus on local populations as simply drawing lines does little in the way of real conservation.

Actually having a good image in the Chameleon Forums eye is a good start. Starting an active place to send contributions to chameleon conservation in Madagascar is something I think would be great to have on this forums. Since the Chameleon Forums is a world wide community (Members from Africa, North America, Asia, Europe and elsewhere). As well with the Chameleon Forums being a global community if we continue to voice our standards to exporters and chameleon farmers to improve their techniques and practices to their consumers standards that if done that is actually progress for chameleon conservation. If you begin to reach the point that you are such a fan of chameleons (this does happen) and you want to have on a hands on experience with conservation past just sending contributions. There are many conservation groups, with Madagascar being a world heritage site, that are active in Madagascar (WWF and American Universities such as Duke) I would recommend to locate and contact a group that you are fond of.

As far as a starting a grassroots programs to send a student of agriculture for 6 months, I qualify and am actually planning to look for such a possible job to educate farmers about contemporary techniques to stop slash and burn agriculture and make the most effective use of agriculture lands and to conserve and restore forests. I actually have got a couple of contacts that have stated they would participate in such an endeavor. As far as local communities in Madagascar they have got to be the ones to see the rewards and logic of using contemporary agricultural practices. If that does not happen not much is going to change. One positive note that indicates that locals are hearing the music of why Madagascar forests are worthy of conservation is even during the middle of government/political turmoil Madagascar is still creating preserves. The latest two are two of the island largest which is an major achievement during political troubles and as well is providing jobs locals.

Jeremy A. Rich
UC Davis Undergraduate

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

A note as well you would be surprised how many people read this forums threads. I have sent google searches on the internet and found my own threads as part of the search results. I think the threads from these forums that make it to google search results are read by many conservation minded people globally and have got an influence on many people that are outside of these forums. However some of these same people possibly have got a say on the global conservation level. Meaning posting here has a part of Madagascar (and other places) chameleon conservation.

Have a look.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=New+Ma...+madagascar+chameleon+quotas&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

If you have not seen (thanks to Collin for showing this initially to me) there is a new list of possible quota species for Madagascar this year. Have a look.

http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2013/ExportQuotas2013_08_13.pdf

A time of political instability is probably not the best or ideal time for new quotas to be made. Other issues such as stability of the Malagasy government, continued conservation of existing preserves and establishment of new preserves would come first. During a period where those tasks are being done then it would be ideal to make new quotas.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

If you have not seen (thanks to Collin for showing this initially to me) there is a new list of possible quota species for Madagascar this year. Have a look.

http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2013/ExportQuotas2013_08_13.pdf

A time of political instability is probably not the best or ideal time for new quotas to be made. Other issues such as stability of the Malagasy government, continued conservation of existing preserves and establishment of new preserves would come first. During a period where those tasks are being done then it would be ideal to make new quotas.

I was extremely surprised to notice that Calumma globifer is listed on this list of possible species for new quota species. Calumma globifer is currently listed as an endangered species by the IUCN Red List. I'm of the opinion that to be listed as a quota species it should be protocol that endangered species should be exempt. If Calumma globifer does indeed become a new quota species I'm interested to hear what CITES justifications are even though I have got a couple ideas why this species could make the quota list.

 

[coldbloodedAL]

Forgive my ignorance, as I am not familiar with the layout...

But, is each species listed there up for consideration of a quota?

I would agree that an "endangered" species should not be up for consideration, but when was the last time globifers population was evaluated? Does CITES have a place to view dated evaluations?

And, if I may ask.. What are.your assumptions why globifer would be up for consideration?

 

[Chris Anderson]

That does not mean that any will be exported legally, all that means is that they were removed from the suspended list, which occurred at the same time as F. campani was last year. All those species other than F. campani were removed from the suspended list with a recommended quota of zero per year, while F. campani was recommended to receive a quota of 250. All those species were listed in the exact same way in last year's quotas (http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2012/ExportQuotas2012.pdf) and as you can see, were given a zero quota.

Chris

 

[Chris Anderson]

Forgive my ignorance, as I am not familiar with the layout...

But, is each species listed there up for consideration of a quota?

No, they are just making note that all other species in those genera are banned from export. Most of those species were included in the initial ban as well until last year when they were removed, but most were removed with a recommendation of a zero quota (except for F. campani, which was recommended for a quota of 250). Their inclusion in the list of species from those genera that are not banned does not mean they are up for consideration of a quota other than that which was recommended previously (as you can see from the link in my last post, they were listed in exactly the same way in 2012 too).

I would agree that an "endangered" species should not be up for consideration, but when was the last time globifers population was evaluated? Does CITES have a place to view dated evaluations?

The Red List Assessment for C. globifer was last done in 2011, so it is fairly recent (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/172830/0). You can search the Red List at the same link for other species and each will have the Date Assessed included in the assessment. The IUCN CSG just finished assessing 64 additional species from East Africa, but the assessments have to go through review before they will be published.

Chris

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Forgive my ignorance, as I am not familiar with the layout...

But, is each species listed there up for consideration of a quota?

I would agree that an "endangered" species should not be up for consideration, but when was the last time globifers population was evaluated? Does CITES have a place to view dated evaluations?

And, if I may ask.. What are.your assumptions why globifer would be up for consideration?

It appears that each of those species on that list is up for consideration to become new quota species. CITES does not have a site to view justification that I have found yet however they cooperate closely with the IUCN Red List and if you run a search on the IUCN site they will provide justifications. I'm not going to over speculate as of now, however agriculture was a major part of my degree at UC Davis and this somewhat qualifies as a kind of conservation/agriculture.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

No, they are just making note that all other species in those genera are banned from export. Most of those species were included in the initial ban as well until last year when they were removed, but most were removed with a recommendation of a zero quota (except for F. campani, which was recommended for a quota of 250). Their inclusion in the list of species from those genera that are not banned does not mean they are up for consideration of a quota other than that which was recommended previously (as you can see from the link in my last post, they were listed in exactly the same way in 2012 too).

Then are the species on this new list up for consideration to become new quota species along with Furcifer campani, Furcifer pardalis, Furcifer lateralis, Furcifer verrucosus, and Furcifer oustaleti that already have got quotas? Or are they just staying as zero quota species while the rest that did not make the list are banned species? Your statement is ambiguous to me.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

And, if I may ask.. What are.your assumptions why globifer would be up for consideration?

That they are proven to be a long lived species when kept in appropriate conditions. It has been shown from my studies that they can out live Panther Chameleons (Furcifer pardalis) and Veiled Chameleons (Chamaeleo calyptratus) if kept under proper conditions in captivety. Meaning limited imports could last a long time. Theoretically imports similar to Furcifer campani of 250 specimens would be ideal. Plus the fact that these chameleons have been proven to breed well in captivity especially compared to there larger relatives Calumma parsonii parsonii. Meaning limited imports could theoretically support a trade similar to how limited imports of Chamaeleo calyptratus has supported a trade of that species. I still am not for importation of any species until they are delisted to a listing less server than an endangered listing. I would rather have imports of Calumma parsonii parsonii until habitat of Calumma globifer is restored and populations recover and Calumma globifer is delisted. I think everyone in the USA should be more concerned with Bradypodions, Ugandan and Tanzania Trioceros and Kinyongia , Cameroon Trioceros and other chameleons husbandry first though. At least until new Madagascar quotas are made.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Then are the species on this new list up for consideration to become new quota species along with Furcifer campani, Furcifer pardalis, Furcifer lateralis, Furcifer verrucosus, and Furcifer oustaleti that already have got quotas? Or are they just staying as zero quota species while the rest that did not make the list are banned species? Your statement is ambiguous to me.

I'd be happy to see some of these other species given quotas like those that F. campani has been recently. That said, to the best of my knowledge, these other species will be staying at a zero quota, at least until a thorough scientific review of the impact such collection on those species would have on their wild populations is conducted and a higher quota can be justified and approved.

Chris

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I could not say who the CITES official was that put that list together however there are many species on that list that are listed as endangered species as listed by the IUCN Red List. However on that note and to stay positive there are a good few species on list that are listed as not threatened by the IUCN and even listed as species of LEAST CONCERN that would appear to make great new quota species. It is going to be neat if that research is done, justified, and approved. As there are many considerations that go into making export quotas for species other than just IUCN standing.

 

[Chameleonmaster]

I think everyone in the USA should be more concerned with Bradypodions, Ugandan and Tanzania Trioceros and Kinyongia , Cameroon Trioceros and other chameleons husbandry first though. .

i think this should be accomplished first.


i can see it already, people that think they're ready to handle a parsons or crypticum because they've kept a panther alive for 6 month, when they need the opposite of care.
i hope when they do get a quota that they're prices are jacked up, so people think about it twice before getting them!
Collin

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

i think this should be accomplished first.
i can see it already, people that think they're ready to handle a parsons or crypticum because they've kept a panther alive for 6 month, when they need the opposite of care.
i hope when they do get a quota that they're prices are jacked up, so people think about it twice before getting them!
Collin

That is the general idea Collin. Chance prefers the prepared.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Theoretically if Calumma parsonii parsonii became a new quota species I think this species should still not be a quota of wild caught animals. Especially with how damaging in regards to fecundity, from removing adult animals from the wild it is. Addressing the problem of taking mature adult breeding Parsonii out of the wild and how long it takes for recruitment and to eventually replace the removed adults as breeding adults. If Calumma parsonii parsonii did make it on a new quota list I'm of the opinion that quotas should be farmed or ranched Parsonii and should be documented legally by CITES microchip to regulate as much as possible legality of exports of Calumma parsonii parsonii. This could prove legality where ever they are shipped to and could start legal paper trails for any captive breeding lines that happens. The micro chips could provide important data such as hatch data of the implanted Parsonii, type (Orange Eye, Yellow Lip), where shipped too (USA, Europe, etc..), importer, farm, etc... all clarifying legality. Clarity of importation is a big issue of the past of concern in regards to this species.

 

[kameleons jvo]

Something is going on that's for sure look at this: http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2013/ExportQuotas2013.pdf
with some luck the US and Asia will welcome several calumma and furcifer species

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Something is going on that's for sure look at this: http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2013/ExportQuotas2013.pdf
with some luck the US and Asia will welcome several calumma and furcifer species

Thanks Jurgen this list has already been posted!

 

[Red Island]

"Conservation through commercialization"