"If you need drainage for indoor habitats, you're doing it wrong!" Over watering

[Chameleopatrick]

Instead of drainage for excess water (more work and more cost), another thought, perhaps a better thought, is using a fan. A fan has multiple benefits including stimulating your captive indoor Cham to act like an outdoor wild Cham and it also gets those hiding lazy bugs moving. Air circulation in a glass habitat or screened enclosure has proven almost as essential to health as good hydration, quality UVB, and food.

Rainstorms daily just isn't necessary for most if not all chams. And if a rain storm IS in order, which mine do get every now and then, try following up with lots of air movement and a spot to warm up. This will increase the realitive humidity and often times stimulate mating behavior in pairs.

Make them want the water, just a little.

If you use a fan after watering heavily, use it pointed at the bottom of the cage not the chameleon.

 

[DekuScrub]

my biggest recommendation would have to be keep them where it dosnt matter if it gets on the floor. or where it is easily cleaned up. before i started breeding/keeping hardcore angling the cages slightly into a gutter that fed into a reservoir worked nicely.

part of my basement is unfinished and simply allowing excess to get on the floor was a non issue. in fact during the winter while the heat is running the excess water dried quickly and helped a lot in keeping the relative humidity up.

keeping your cage heavily planted is probably the most realistic recommendation for you, as it was mentioned earlier. rather than collecting in the bottom it will benefit your plants and keep a nice humidity going.

i understand the concern with upper respiratory infections but ive never had an issue with that even with all the moist soil. i could see spores causing issues and from what i understand silverfish consume fungi. i dont have those but i have millipedes and pill bugs that are regular residents from phasing cages and plants outdoors to indoors.

soakings are nice i agree with olympia. you just get a nice warm feeling in your heart when you see you cham just "basking" in the mist or rain or shower. you just know hydration isnt going to be an issue.

BUT some chams are better drinkers than others. some will immediately go over and drink their fill within the first couple minutes the mister is running or the dripper is going. for me it dosnt seem species specific. it tends to depend on your chams preferences. some will take a good 15 min to even get interested or accept they are being "rained upon" other will flee in terror. and some wont even drink they just seem to enjoy being in the mist.

if you want to limit the volume of fluid i would recommend using a dripper with very low flow. personally what i use as drippers is water bottles or gallon jugs with pin holes in them. the smaller the hole the lower the flow. so be careful in making your holes otherwise you may end up with a stream and a dripping that only lasts a minute. if you make an appropriately sized hole(s) you can have it run for a while and allow your cham to drink at his leisure.

all in all id say if you have a good drinker you can limit the volume you provide dramatically. but if you have a bad drinker....youre stuck having to deal with drainage. simple as that.

ive had a pair of jacksons since november and ill tell you what. ive NEVER seen the male drink. i purchased an ultrasonic humidifier specifically for his "bad behavior" he gets 3 mistings a day 5min in the morning 15min at noon then 5 in the evening and i drip him too.

still have never seen him drink, but his fecals look fine and shows no symptoms of dehydration. still he angers me i wish he would just once drink in front of me for peace of mind

edit* oh and keep a small wetvac nearby, its awesome for quick cleanings and it tyakes care of excess water. takes only a few seconds to vacuum it out. totally worth the investment

 

[ataraxia]

This technique may work to keep some species alive but is in no way shape or form giving them their true needs of hydration. This sounds like a lazy, money pinching keeper.

I have some chameleons that i spray the cage a decent amount and move on to the next. I then come back to the cage and now the drink session begins. Most drinking session dont last 10 seconds, they dont last 30 seconds most will drink for minutes daily. They will also do this multiple times a day. Whoever is not seeing their panther drink daily is not doing something right. Wild caught, Shy, new chameleons, unless ill, heck i dont care who it is will drink. You just have to do it right.

I have some chameleons that will drink for so damn long everyday i will put a dripper on the cage to satisfy their needs on top of my mistings. I dont have automated systems i do this by hand and i see this everyday. I see this everyday multiple times a day. Sure i dont drinch every square inch of the cage but i do drinch a good portion around my chameleons cages everyday. Have i always done this? No, I also at a time thought a good drinching would suffice and admit i never lost a chameleon over it. Did i see yellow urates from time to time? Yes i did. Was i not giving the chameleon truly what it needed? Hell no. Ive learned a lot over the last few years. Ive made many mistakes and learn from them.

Dont listen to whoever says you dont need it. You dont have to wear deodarant but you need it. Does it never rain in nature? In nature does it only rain for 30 seconds?

With this amount of said experience it cracks me up some of the advice people will supply.

 

[ataraxia]

Make them want the water, just a little.

I love this guy.

Instead of drainage for excess water (more work and more cost),

Money pincher..

 

[Ace]

Pics would be great lol

 

[Chameleopatrick]

I love this guy.



Money pincher..

Your personal attacks are misguided and unfortunate, your assumptions great, your facts weak.

kinda what I expect here...

If you think a daily deleuge of water is what it takes to keep your chameleon happy obviously I can't change that. Good luck.

 

[ataraxia]

Your personal attacks are misguided and unfortunate, your assumptions great, your facts weak.

kinda what I expect here...

If you think a daily deleuge of water is what it takes to keep your chameleon happy obviously I can't change that. Good luck.

Guy/gale im begging you to open your pocket book up, spend a little of that stash and implement some sort of drainage on your cages.Then offer them the delight of a "DELUGE" daily...They cant exactly tell you thank you but im sure if they could they would.

 

[Davonat]

Guy/gale im begging you to open your pocket book up, spend a little of that stash and implement some sort of drainage on your cages.Then offer them the delight of a "DELUGE" daily...They cant exactly tell you thank you but im sure if they could they would.

There are some interesting points here..... First the Chameleon Company guy says Misters are junk & says a room humidier is all you need then someone posts he said Rain the heck out of them!

My panthers have all hated rain,& mist. they practically fall trying to get away. I guess its all what they are used to US giving them. My system works for me & never had any dehydrated chams Sounds like both you guys are very experianced keepers..... As long as the chams are doing well... who cares what systems we give them? Lets not attack each others credibility here. OK?

 

[ataraxia]

Dev: You are correct, to each their own. Whether it is good for the chameleon will be determined

There are some interesting points here..... First the Chameleon Company guy says Misters are junk & says a room humidier is all you need then someone posts he said Rain the heck out of them!

Could you also supply the links of the actual breeder himself stating this? Anyone can say anyone said anything on a forums.

 

[Chameleopatrick]

So this goes from a technical discussion about indoor habitat watering techniques to you editing your posts to add addional antagonism on top of name calling?

Hmmmmm.

Surely you can do better than that...

 

[sandrachameleon]

Well, for what its worth, i think offering ALOT of water (even if there is a minor inconvience of drainage) is far far far better than a minimilistic approach. Why risk dehydration? A dripper cant harm a chameleon, but a lack of sufficient water sure could. The occassional heavy spray simulating natural rain is very likely good for their skin and eyes, if nothing else.

Obviously, maintaining the proper humidity is important - and doing that is different depending on type of enclosure and local climate.

Not that its relevant to the discussion, but I also think the pictured enclosure lacks sufficient horizontal branches, especially near the top. And it seems (hard to tell) rather small, too.

edit - to answer the actual question the OP asked....

so this is a statment made by another memeber, and i just wated to explore this a little more.
i know i water less than alot of keepers but still feel i require drainage, so i am curious about waht ammount of water would be safe for a cham yet not require the drainage.
just looking for a friendly helpfull discussion.
thx

You need to water enough (in combination with hydrated prey, relative humidity etc) that the urate is white. That's your easiest way of seeing if the chameleon has had sufficient water.

 

[Davonat]

Dev: You are correct, to each their own. Whether it is good for the chameleon will be determined



Could you also supply the links of the actual breeder himself stating this? Anyone can say anyone said anything on a forums.

I dont know how to do that cut and paste stuff... But this quote can be found at post # 172 in Canny Chams thread ... ( Faly Sick Help )

 

[PantherEnvy]

Since we are a forum, we are all entitled to our opinions. My opinion on this issue;
We are all trying to match/or come close to the natural environments of our chamelons original locale.

Since most of our family members (not all) are from Madagascar and/or the mountaneous/forest regions of North Africa-where there is a considerable amount of rainfall...why not err on the safe side and have controlled, organized water management that ensures a hydrated chameleon? (always make sure you have periods during the day to allow for full evaporation of H2O). I know some chamelons can and do get by with "less H2O"; but lets remember that our advice is sometimes used as a reference for husbandry techniques.
I would rather have someone new to our world who just got a panther chameleon, err on the side of too much H20, instead of getting water delivery so dialed in that drainage should never be done...but dehydration has a greater chance to happen.

The advice for my fellow chameleon enthusiasts' is it is better to have more water than not enough.

 

[Davonat]

The advice for my fellow chameleon enthusiasts' is it is better to have more water than not enough.

Well..... lets see...... Whats better??? Too much water = RI & vet visits. Too little means dripping a little longer.... Take your pick

 

[ataraxia]

This discussion is about drainage and no drainage. I dont think he is talking about without drainage.

 

[ataraxia]

Well..... lets see...... Whats better??? Too much water = RI & vet visits. Too little means dripping a little longer.... Take your pick

Too much water being forced? Too much water standing in cage?

Seriously man, We arent talking extreme's/. Simple waste water management.

Edit: To Dev, If i am assuming correct. You are using a humidifier and dripper? Are you misting at all?

 

[PantherEnvy]

Well..... lets see...... Whats better??? Too much water = RI & vet visits. Too little means dripping a little longer.... Take your pick

Remember, the correct "pick" is to come as close as possible to the environment that our chams originally came from: Too much water- tropical forests, mountains. Dripping a little longer-desert chameleons.

 

[Davonat]

Too much water being forced? Too much water standing in cage?

Seriously man, We arent talking extreme's/. Simple waste water management.

All im saying is....Its quite evident that our chams are more adaptable than we think. And all the different systems we use all work as long as ..... like you say.... good drainage is supplied I dont have drainage... for the cage. I dont need it. My cham doesnt drink every day either.... His feeders must be hydrated well I guess His poops always have very white urate.

 

[Davonat]

dit: To Dev, If i am assuming correct. You are using a humidifier and dripper? Are you misting at all?

Yep...... My Mist King goes off every 1 1/2 hr. for about 30-40 seconds just to dampen things....the cage drys before the next session His dripper is 1 gallon size & drips all day every day.

 

[ataraxia]

nevermind this post read it wrong.