"If you need drainage for indoor habitats, you're doing it wrong!" Over watering

[Hoj]

and back to he topic i feel that too much water definatly is not a good thing witch is where drainage comes into play for most of us.
in my big cages with great drainage you could dump 5 gallons into it and it would still be safe and dry within 3hrs.
not that they need all that water but it leaves them to make the chioce while still having a safe enviorment.
having drainage at least gives me the ability to offer more water when wanted or need with out the hassle. as said i water less than alot of keepers and rarley need the drainage but like knowing it is there.
i find watching the urate is always a good way to view hydration, and adjust watering accordingly.

 

[PantherEnvy]

...and furthermore, too much water makes too little water dripper mistking h20 bacteria dry dehydrated misting water logged motly mess sorry did not mean to offend raining tropical rainforest DRAINAGE...

Sorry, forum thread overload...

 

[Todnedo]

If water is offered in the correct way one will be surprised at how little water is needed to meet the chams needs.

It's very simple ... make careful observations and correct oversights. If your cham freaks out when the misters come on try a dripper.
Stress is a serious issue, dehydration is not. Their poop is color coded so it's real easy to tell if your methods are working or not. Most people new to the hobby will overwater because they don't know how to water and without proper drainage it will cause problems.

 

[yankfanthom]

wow, i'm thirsty now for some reason...

oh snap!! :d

 

[melric]

Mist 5 times a day for 30 seconds. Works for me. No health issues. At least 3 live plants in each cage. No drainage.

 

[Canny Chams]

my problem is less with my drainage system, and more trying to keep the water in the damn cage, I have a hard wood floor and a pissed off landlord, still trying to figure out how to keep it in the cage. Chameleopatrick, I have cared fr many chameleons, and with the exeption of 1 chameleon, my chameleons drink most during or after longer mistings, droplets or the spray itself, the long rainfall/misting i guess triggers something that makes them want to drink, that one chameleon, who would only drink from the dripper, died afew weeks ago from renal kidney failiure, which was most likely cause my dehydration, as long as im getting the dry period before the next mistings, I would definately say to spray as long and much as possible.

 

[Davonat]

Mist 5 times a day for 30 seconds. Works for me. No health issues. At least 3 live plants in each cage. No drainage.

YEP! ME TOO!....... I built a beautiful new "cage" Not a shower stall

 

[melric]

YEP! ME TOO!....... I built a beautiful new "cage" Not a shower stall

lol, Agreed.
One thing I've learned about the forums is there is a lot of regurgitation of information. Like when some people post on a species they've never owned, but are experts.

 

[Chameleopatrick]

Water, diet, supplementation, light quality, temperature, air circulation will all have profound effects on your chameleons. positive or negative effects will be the symptom of your ability to achieve the right balance for your species.

For those who have ten months or two years experience, multiply everything you have learned by ten or twenty, that's where I'm coming from.

You can argue that excess water is necessary, and I will say ignorance is bliss, until the vet bills...

So, who uses fans with their habitat?

 

[coldbloodedAL]

I have been thinking about using computer fans to pump fresh air in lto my vivs. Is that what fans you are referring to?

 

[Jimturner]

I have found drainage to be a VERY necessary thing. In my personal experience short mist sessions a few seconds long will not stimulate my chams to drink. My mist schedule is 20 min 45 min after lights on @ 9:45am, 20 min @ noon, 15 min @ 3pm and another 15 @ 6:30. I Also regularly mist an hour or two at a time every other day or two. About 20 minutes into these long sessions I will see each and every cham sitting directly under the nozzles enjoying a nice long soak and drink. They will remain there until the misting stops. These long sessions will use about 5 to 10 gallons of water and without proper drainage would create quite a mess. My cages dry out between sessions and remain dry over night. Chams come from rain forests.... Not a little bit of water now and then forests...

 

[Olimpia]

My house gets a fair amount of natural air circulation because I keep all my windows open as often as possible. Usually at night or at dawn now that it's getting hot again but back in February I had the windows open full-time, day and night. I only use a fan if I only want the cham room window open but the room closed, and set it on the window ledge to it can pull air in and circulate it. So I do take advantage of air circulation. The fan I use is just a little desk one, but it does super well for that room.

So I never have a problem with stagnant humidity or air in that room, and it's better for everyone's lungs to keep the air fresh and moving indoors! People forget how gross the air gets indoors, for pets and people, if you don't let it renew.

 

[Goggles]

In Canada during the winter months it can get pretty dry with the heat going so extra mistings are required.
In summer it is alot more humid and that's when the drainage becomes a problem.
I do find I need the longer mistings(5 minutes) to get them to have a drink.
Just my 1.875 cents(WHAT it's Canadian!!)

 

[Midnighthwk]

my 2 cents

my cham hates misting but loves his dripper and taking a shoer 2 times a week for 15-20 mins.
when his dripper is empty and he wants to drink he will knock it over.
when its shower time he will be trying to push the door open. ( only time hewants to come out )
in the shower i have it so he can be in the main (rain) part, or the mist or not even get wet.
i have a drainage system but it only gets water in it when i water all of the plants in the cage and then its maybe a cup at the most that drains from the pots.

 

[Miss Machine]

I have ten chameleons. One veiled, 3 in the Furcifer family, a pair of quads and 2 pairs of pygmy's. I use glass and screen enclosures. I use an automated misting system. In all my enclosures I use newspapers on the bottom for drainage, which are replaced every week. There are 4 automated misting sessions a day, for a total of 4 minutes. I shower all my chameleons exept my pygmys once a week and that shower session is about 10 minutes each, so that they can clean their eyes and drink. My quads are also hydrated extra by hand and I use a humidifier in their enclosure. I use computerfan's to extra ventilate my glass enclosures..
In my opinion my chameleons are hydrated enough, their urate is neatly white.
That's the way I do it. I experience that all my chameleons hate the shower sessions because they try to run away but eventually stay put and drink.

 

[ecoreef]

Water dryness.

I have been keeping chams for several years now and the only constant I have found is that there is none. Yes, some things are the same across the board but when it come to water, misting, drippers, hydration, ect....... we all have to play scientist and do what works FOR OUR SITUATION. Chameleons are very sensitive animals and unfortunately they all don't act exactly the same. Some will drink with a direct spray of water to the face and some will run away from the exact same thing.

When it comes to misting and drainage there really is no set answer IMO. I PERSONALLY PREFER to give them a long shower in the mourning followed by several short mistings throughout the day and I do need drainage trays for the long mourning shower. I believe the long shower has several benefits for the eyes and skin and my chams can go to to the opposite side of the cage to get out of the shower if they want. I also use a timed fan to make sure everything dries up once during the day and before lights go out at night. This seems to work great for the climate I live in and the screen cages I use. I'm not saying that other hydration techniques won't work for you and the certain species that you keep, this is just what works for me and my f. pardalis.

We're not dealing with math equations where a+b=c, we're dealing with chameleons. Part of chameleon husbandry involves problem solving and adapting to our personal situation. If whatever you are doing keeps your urates white, sheds easy, and cham free of RIs, keep up the good work!

-Alex

 

[javsto]

Im only on the second page of this thread and I just wanted to ask this first before reading all in case I forget my original query, but as far as drainage or cleaning up standing water, does anyone use some sort of moss to soak up excess moisture? I am always getting bombarded at all my local stores, trying to sell me Sphagum moss, sorry if I misspelled it, or some other type cage bottom material. I have thought about using a sham-wow or a couple of large sponges to try to control the results of constant watering from my monsoon, little dripper and reptifogger.

 

[Murrdox]

Tried it once a long time ago when I first got into chameleons. It doesn't work very well.

Whatever absorbent substance you choose will likely not be absorbent enough, and will also likely just make a completely mess when you try to clean it. If you don't clean it often enough, then you have a wet soggy sponge at the bottom of your cage, which is basically just a bacteria magnet.

I could possibly see something like a Shamwow working... but only if your excess water was so little that you're really just catching occasional drips from a misting.

It's much easier to drain into a reservoir that you can easily remove and empty.

 

[Big D]

Water, diet, supplementation, light quality, temperature, air circulation will all have profound effects on your chameleons. positive or negative effects will be the symptom of your ability to achieve the right balance for your species.

For those who have ten months or two years experience, multiply everything you have learned by ten or twenty, that's where I'm coming from.

You can argue that excess water is necessary, and I will say ignorance is bliss, until the vet bills...

So, who uses fans with their habitat?

I have 5 weeks experience with my Furcifer lateralis, so I'm definitely in learning mode. I mist by hand 1-2 times per day. I also have a reptifogger on a timer. It runs 30-40 minutes 4 times per day. As it is fogging through the top mesh, it leaves droplets on the mesh that fall on the leaves below. That gets his attention and he goes over to drink the water from the leaf condensed from the fogger. The other day, he looked too warm, so I mostly-drowned a superworm and let it get a bit waterlogged, 3 min or so. Then put it on a leaf he could see so he'd get extra water. He ate it readily and stopped gaping after that.

My vivarium is an Exo-terra 18x18x24 with 1.5 inches hydroballs and 1.5 inches soil, a layer of sphagnum moss, and fully planted. When I first started, I was over watering. When I had to stick a fishtank airline into the layers to syphon out a gallon of water, I decided to back off. His urates are still very white, so I think he's getting enough to drink. Your thoughts?

As far as fans, what do you have in mind? I have a fan on the windowsill that points toward the vivarium. I put it there to keep the ambient temp in the vivarium below 80 while we're between heating and cooling season. As soon as I start running the a/c, I don't think I'll need that fan.

I was thinking just yesterday, that a small fan placed on top of the vivarium blowing up would draw more air in the front vent. It's an Exo-terra. Do you use one? And where would I find one that I could just plug in?

 

[Sticktongue]

Wish i would have found this thread before today.. but i had been off the computer for about 2 weeks so i missed a bunch of stuff.

I think this depends on the CAGE we are using. Chameleopatrick is using exoterra glass terrariums. I am yet to use one (will in the near future) but from what i've seen and read on here, he is right about needing no drainage for GLASS cages. The bottom is glass and no way to drain it out in the first place. Plus he stated their is water droplets in available most of the day to drink from. If i had glass, this is the way i would/will be doing it. It got mentioned a few times that the rain is necessary for their skin. I agree with that statement, however.. Glass holds humidity a lot better and i think that helps their skin just as much as our "rainstorms"

As for screen enclosures.. Thats what i am currently using. However, three sides of my cages are covered with plastic. With 3 inches on top and bottom still being open on those sides for air ventilation. each one of my cages gets about 2 1/2 gallons of rain a day. I dont like misters. I made my own raindome and in MY opinions, they drink more with rain drops instead of mist. My female Multi starts drinking quickly and walks around in it the whole time. My male (only had him for a couple weeks) takes quite awhile to even start enjoying to water. For this reason, i use a dripper on his cage as well. I have to empty my water bins once every 5 days or so. Not a big deal.

So pretty much, i'm on both sides here. to sum it up, in my opinion.. Screen = drainage. Glass = no drainage.