I'm not a bad Panther owner am I?

[Yavin]

I think that anyone who can post saying he's a bad owner is doing so ONLY based on their own personal experiance with their own chameleon, I think and something I have learnt a lot about of late. is that every single reptile, regardless of species, has its own unique needs, regardless of what type it is, even animals of the same subset can act and behave tottaly different to each other.

so how ANY OF YOU, can even dare to answer his question is beyond me, specially when your spouting stuff as fact. unless its your animal, and you raised it from birth or a very young age, then you have absolutely unequivocally no idea of what is, or is not stressing the animal. for the simple reason that they are all so unique from each other.

Its the EXACT same thing when it comes to enclosures, All glass is bad, or so you all say, and yet thousands of people and EXPERTS around the world keep their chameleons in all glass tanks/viv's, some say wood is bad and yet again, chams around the world are kept in them without fail, most agree that open air mesh vivs are the best, but what if the location you live in is subject to very cold winters, trying to maintain good healthy heat in a mesh viv is impossible.

What you all need to do, is get off your high horse, "Oh iv had my cham for 6 years I know what all chams need and its the same way I keep mine" and start understanding that what works for you, might not work for someone else. and vis versa.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

I think that anyone who can post saying he's a bad owner is doing so ONLY based on their own personal experiance with their own chameleon, I think and something I have learnt a lot about of late. is that every single reptile, regardless of species, has its own unique needs, regardless of what type it is, even animals of the same subset can act and behave tottaly different to each other.

so how ANY OF YOU, can even dare to answer his question is beyond me, specially when your spouting stuff as fact. unless its your animal, and you raised it from birth or a very young age, then you have absolutely unequivocally no idea of what is, or is not stressing the animal. for the simple reason that they are all so unique from each other.

Its the EXACT same thing when it comes to enclosures, All glass is bad, or so you all say, and yet thousands of people and EXPERTS around the world keep their chameleons in all glass tanks/viv's, some say wood is bad and yet again, chams around the world are kept in them without fail, most agree that open air mesh vivs are the best, but what if the location you live in is subject to very cold winters, trying to maintain good healthy heat in a mesh viv is impossible.

What you all need to do, is get off your high horse, "Oh iv had my cham for 6 years I know what all chams need and its the same way I keep mine" and start understanding that what works for you, might not work for someone else. and vis versa.

To answer the poster of the threads question :
IMO - He is not a bad owner but should put the Chameleons needs above his own. If you are going to care for an animal take complete care.


Oh boy sounds like you are on your high horse. When someone asks a question like the question on this post what do you expect from a bunch of people dedicated to the best care possible for their Chameleon.

What we do here is share what has worked and have adapted best practices in Chameleon Care. People here are passionate about their animals. You defending such a pathetic question is shameful. And to attack the members of the forum. "you say "every single reptile, regardless of species, has its own unique needs, regardless of what type it is, even animals of the same subset can act and behave totally different to each other. " Chameleons are very different.

You are right what people have done here is tried , failed , and tried again until something works. Then they share what works best. Ask a question that you want opinions on and you will get an answer. Some good some bad. Its a forum. An opinion was asked for.


Sounds like what ever you do works for you , so keep at it.

 

[Yavin]

I was not really aiming that small rant at the people just giving an opinion, but those who clearly said in or around it that he was a bad owner, i was questioning their ability to make that judgment given that his chameleons may very well behave completely differently to theirs, and as their using theirs as a base for their assesment. that they cant really say or claim, that he is a bad owner.

as some one else said, do what works, if it works for you then do it, if not change and adapt.

 

[SoCaliSon]

I agree with Brad here... In that it seems it is not the best interest of the animal he is concerned about, more drawing a crowd to himself, and trying to impress strangers with a neat animal. Not cool...and If I ever saw someone with a panther on their shoulder walking around the swapmeet, I think I would have to say something. Sandra also makes a great point. People will see this and think.."Ohhh mama I want one of those to carry around with me....It's like a pretty parrot that doesn't make noise!" "I want a Cham for my shoulder NOW DADDY!" Sounds stupid but we know how common it is, and how many animals who get stuck in that situation end up suffering.


Poker... What a tough way to enter the forum... Stick aorund here and you can learn a lot. People here are straight up, and incredibly helpful. Nobody is going judge you as a person, unless you ask us too.

 

[tburgcris]

I think everyone is getting too hot about this topic. I think if u have to ask the question then u already know something is wrong. As for me I wish I could take my chams with me around but I know they don't like it. So maybe u can tell they don't mind for when I start to get ready to go away my boxer knows and gets excited because when the warm weather is here He goes in the back of my truck everywhere and I know for a fact he loves to go so how do we know that his cham doesn't love being out in the sun and saying hi. I must agree every creature from hampster to an elephent all have their own personality and if u r sure u know yours well enough well then all the power to u. I know that I want to see the whole world how do we know what goes on inside the head of a cham and that they don't. So all u people that think u know what goes on in their head well u DON'T. The best thing is to figure out each chamm and let them tell u what they like and dislike not the other way around. Have a good day everyone I love you all. We r all great people entitled to our own opinions. Many soldiers died to give us that right.

 

[SoCaliSon]

The best thing is to figure out each chamm and let them tell u what they like and dislike not the other way around.

Why didn't I think of that... Instead of spending all this time observing their behaviors, and doing everything I can to keep my chams healthy by following the instruction and guidance of more experienced keepers than myself, who have done real viable work and scientific research towards understanding the needs of these animals...I could have just asked my Chameleon! That would have made everything so much easier!

 

[dodolah]

at one time or another, i think we all make mistakes on how to care for our pets.
The only thing that makes you become a bad owner is the unwillingness to change for the sake of your animal.

Now you know that exposing your chameleons to such setting can cause them heavy stress (regardless whether or not they are showing stress symptoms).

If you put them in those situation again knowing the fact that it does them no good, then I have to concur with others that your selfishness makes you a bad owner.

Live and learn, man.

 

[sttines]

I will not add to the heated responses by calling you a bad owner but I will say you may have less experience with these animals. They do not like show 'n tell or being on display to a crowd of people. I'd like a list of zoos successfully keeping chameleons in their reptile houses. You rarely see them because they don't fare well long term in a surrounding with a lot of activity. Yes, they all have their own "personalities" so you may think and I will say that over the years I've had many that were friendly and not afraid of me but I am the sole human they are seeing daily, not a crowd at a swap meet, whatever that is supposed to be.

And no one has mentioned the health issues. Exposing your cham to other animals that others bring and no doubt everyone's hands about( don't tell me NO ONE is touching the chameleon) is welcoming the possibility of parasites and bacteria.

You need to take photos to the swap meet.

Yavin, you need to get off your high horse and listen to experienced people. I know there are some here. What may appear to be a chameleon acclimated to a crowd of people may actually show itself later on in stressed behaviour and not eating. It may be weeks later but the effects wil show themselves so don't be fooled.


Stanley tines

 

[hallenhe]

Thaxter's never been to a swap meet (neither have I), and I would be scared of something outside of my or his control happening to him in any situation with a lot of people and/or animals. He does sit nicely on my arm for the two block walk down to our local park (which has a lot more sun than my yard), and he has encountered new people there, who have generally been very positive about him. I do like to "show off" my chameleon, let people know that reptiles aren't necessarily icky, etc.; is that attention seeking or is it education? (Rhetorical question.) I wouldn't say offhand that a swap meet is bad, good or otherwise without knowing the meet, the cham, etc.; I'd just be afraid to take my lizard.

 

[leela]

All u lot in this disscusion should think yourself lucky that ur chameleons can at least flippin' WALK, LET ALONE SITTING ON UR SHOULDER!!!!!!!

so stop frikkin fighting!!

 

[Kosmo]

All u lot in this disscusion should think yourself lucky that ur chameleons can at least flippin' WALK, LET ALONE SITTING ON UR SHOULDER!!!!!!!

so stop frikkin fighting!!

zuh? engerish perease!

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

All u lot in this disscusion should think yourself lucky that ur chameleons can at least flippin' WALK, LET ALONE SITTING ON UR SHOULDER!!!!!!!

so stop frikkin fighting!!

If you are relying on luck you are in trouble.

 

[Chuck G]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion,that is what makes this a great forum.
At the minimum you are using poor judgement. As a responsible pet owner,it is your job to keep your pet safe and stress free.Also the guy that lets his dog ride in the back of the truck because he thinks he likes it,I hope you never have to slam on your brakes.

 

[SoCaliSon]

Also the guy that lets his dog ride in the back of the truck because he thinks he likes it,I hope you never have to slam on your brakes.

Chuck +1!!! Great Example! Same with the person who drives down the freeway with their newborn in their lap...

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

"cover your ears little ones"

its not our job to hold back the truth because keepers may make mistakes.
I say share everything you know, not just what works for the masses.

enough necessary evil roles here. Yes 99% of the time this is a bad idea, a very bad idea. As bad as everyone is making it seem, but its not as bad as everyone is making it seems 100% of the time.

You are all correct when responding to the general public...... but this is one individual that is asking a question about HIM and HIS cham in particular.

when you first get a cham and try to get near it, it will stress out and get aggressive. eventually its possible to end up hand feeding the same cham.
i dont think after time it is stressful at all to hand feed some chams. but it was stressful at one time.

think about it

the fact that you even asked the question makes you responsible. you are stressing the cham out, but how much? and is that too much?

if you are going to continue to let him piggy back than do your homework and do you best to figure out how stressed hes being.

IMO stress is needed in moderation. IMO if a well fed cham on someones shoulder out in public doesnt hesitate to eat you are not the devil

swapmeet is one thing, knotts scary farm is another ( go so cal )

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Chuck G, hope you don't mind my dragging your quote onto this thread (from a previous thread in July.). One of your Parsons was quoted saying this. What a Bard! It seems to be apropos:

Herc tired of talky talk. Feed Herc big bugs.
Smart people make Herc head hurt.
Herc make poopy now.

Sorry, SoCaliSon, that's all I have to offer, too.

 

[Brad]

Please refrain from posting personal attacks against other members.


I agree with some other members that carrying a chameleon around in public is most likely a bad idea.

 

[SoCaliSon]

Chuck G, hope you don't mind my dragging your quote onto this thread (from a previous thread in July.). One of your Parsons was quoted saying this. What a Bard! It seems to be apropos:



Sorry, SoCaliSon, that's all I have to offer, too.

I am always willing to discuss and consider both sides of the coin on any topic... In a mature and respectful way.
When I said that I was referring to a post contating 20 lines of "HAHAHA" then directly insulting members with name calling and a very hurtfull *rasberry*. If that is all someone has to offer...then I say keep it...It is just litter on the boards.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

I do agree with you SoCaliSon.

This forum is known internationally for containing thoughtful, expert advice from rational, experienced, chameleon keepers. This forum is highly regarded, not just in the chameleon community, but in the internet community as a whole, and is thought to be one to emulate and admire. Most of the new folks who post here for the first time are genuinely seeking help, and are opening a small part of their heart and lives to us in a trusting way.

When the moderators briefly closed this thread I felt guilty and a little ashamed for having taken part in some personal things. I should probably edit my earlier post but will leave it as is.

Here's another thought, on topic more or less, concerning chameleons who seem to "enjoy" public appearances:
We have done quite a few rescues, and have found that the most lethargic, "easy going", chams tend to have underlying health issues. Usually it's parasites, and most commonly coccidia. There may be some healthy chameleons that don't seem to respond to unusual situations, but they are probably rare. And there are times when a chameleon is too terrified to move. Their main defense to an unrecognized threat is to remain still, is it not? A chameleon that is "calmly" sitting on one's shoulder is not necessarily having a good time.

 

[SoCaliSon]

Here's another thought, on topic more or less, concerning chameleons who seem to "enjoy" public appearances:
We have done quite a few rescues, and have found that the most lethargic, "easy going", chams tend to have underlying health issues. Usually it's parasites, and most commonly coccidia. There may be some healthy chameleons that don't seem to respond to unusual situations, but they are probably rare. And there are times when a chameleon is too terrified to move. Their main defense to an unrecognized threat is to remain still, is it not? A chameleon that is "calmly" sitting on one's shoulder is not necessarily having a good time.

Great Points!

I also really like the point a page back (can't remember who said it) where someone mentioned how it is rare to find Chams in Zoo's... I hadn't thought of the reasons for this... But considering the fact that they would be on constant display to hundreds of people and kids screaming, tapping and blowing their cheeks up against the glass, I can see how it may be hard to keep a cham from stressing daily in that situation.