Import/Export

mpbm31

mpbm31

Member
I was brainstorming and browsing the web to see how to get wild caught(fresh bloodline) chameleons in groups. I wanted to expand on panthers and was checking out importing. Honestly it would cost a fortune to buy individual chams from breeders here in the US. I found some farms in Cameroon and other places but I wanted info from someone that has done this before or the pro's and con's about imports. I'm not looking to start a business or anything to that extreme. It's a love and hobby that I've had since I was a kid and I now have the time and money to expand. Thanks for any feedback!
 
mpbm31 said:
I was brainstorming and browsing the web to see how to get wild caught(fresh bloodline) chameleons in groups. I wanted to expand on panthers and was checking out importing. Honestly it would cost a fortune to buy individual chams from breeders here in the US. I found some farms in Cameroon and other places but I wanted info from someone that has done this before or the pro's and con's about imports. I'm not looking to start a business or anything to that extreme. It's a love and hobby that I've had since I was a kid and I now have the time and money to expand. Thanks for any feedback!
Click to expand...


Good luck ! 99% of those peoples are scammers, Nigeria and Cameroon are the centers of those criminal activities. Never believe so from Cameroon who offers you animals which aren't living in Cameroon.
 
I was wondering about importing as well, since you dont need any permits what so ever to import chameleons into canada. Havent really found any exporters though.
 
One thing also to note...even though these animals are "farm raised" they are going to have parasites and worms coming from Cameroon. If you haven't dealt with wc before I wouldn't suggest importing "farm raised" ones. I've had/have my fair share of wild caught chameleons and if you already have a group of CBs I wouldn't introduce WCs into your house.

~chris
 
CleanLineChameleons said:
One thing also to note...even though these animals are "farm raised" they are going to have parasites and worms coming from Cameroon. If you haven't dealt with wc before I wouldn't suggest importing "farm raised" ones. I've had/have my fair share of wild caught chameleons and if you already have a group of CBs I wouldn't introduce WCs into your house.

~chris
Click to expand...

There are NO farms in Cameroon.
@Jameleon: I am quite sure that you need CITES docs / Vet docs and import permits.
 
mpbm31 - The supposed chameleon farms in Cameroon and Nigeria claiming to breed Panther Chameleons of every different locale you can think of and any other species you ask about, are a scam. Make up a scientific name, email them and ask them if they have them available. They will reply that they have some available.

Chris
 
A few other points to mention:

1: A legit exporter certainly isn't going to send you 10 or 20 cool, healthy chameleons. In a lot of cases they have minimum order requirements. Are you prepared to house many different, often sick chameleons plus frogs and snakes and whatnot else just to get those few semi-rare species?

2: I'm not up on the latest Canadian CITES rules but yes you don't need an importers licence for a few animals for personal use but a large shipment might be considered commercial so you will potentially need one. CITES is required from the exporter.

3: This is a bit more of a pet peeve of mine but Canadians always bitch about the lack of availability of the uncommon species but where are these complainers when true CB and CH animals are produced? And they are with regularity. If it's not a Panther or Veiled it just doesn't sell up here.
 
eisentrauti said:
There are NO farms in Cameroon.
@Jameleon: I am quite sure that you need CITES docs / Vet docs and import permits.
Click to expand...

Heres what the government says:

"Amphibians such as: salamanders, frogs, toads, newts

Reptiles such as: snakes, crocodiles, caiman, iguanas, turtles, tortoises, geckos

This information is current as of 2010-11-11.

Please be advised that amphibians and reptiles (excluding turtles and tortoises) are no longer regulated under the Health of Animals Regulations (other than Part XII that regulates the transport of all animals). As a result, no Canadian Food Inspection Agency import permit is required, nor a health certificate and no inspection will normally be done at the border. Imports are permitted from any country, for any use, to any destination in Canada."


http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/imp/petani/amphe.shtml
 
I agree with what is being said here...

And can tell you that this is not only true of reptiles but most "animals" you import. There is a high risk of being scamed and either you won't get it after it is paid for or you will get something it just likely won't be what you were told it would be or what you ask for.... I have seen "posts back and forth" that I was not meant to see about animals that were being exported from another Country to here and let just say they like to call us "Stupid Americans"!..... To me not worth the risk, personal lessons learned.... I have several thousand dollars in another Country for a few years and still nothing to show for it.

Easy for them to rip you off because lets face it what are you gonna do about it? Go there? and even if you did then what?
 
Another aspect to think about is the amount of time required to import from another country. Its going to take many months and alot of time on your part to make this happen. Its not as simple as ordering a cham and waiting for fedex. And get ready to pay out the nose for cites permits so unless your doing a really large import those costs are going to push up your costs per animal. So, yeah its really cool to get new unrelated bloodlines and rare locales but you better be prepared going in for a lot of costs and the possiblity you wont even get what you originally ordered.
 
What you probably didn't include in your financial calculation: The flight is very expensive too. Canada is far away from the typical reptile exporting nations. If you just want some pardalis, buy pairs in Canada or the USA. But never trust somebody who is unable to communicate with you in an adequate way, who can't give you pictures of the animals and who promise you everything you can imagine for no money. That's not the way the world goes round. If you want quality, you have to pay for it.

If you want some good quality animals from Tanzania I can help you
 
IMO your best bet is to buy from breeders, if your looking to get fresh blood flchams is the best because almost all there breeders are wildcaught giving you F1 babies. Dont chance it with cameroon, I already tried and lost 500 bucks which I was supposed to recieve a nosy mitsio trio I should have known right there that nobody would sell that that cheap but my emotions got the better of me. GL getting wildcaughts if you find a legit person let me know cuz I have been looking to do the same thing
 
I forgot to mention if you go to the cameroon and nigeria scammers and ask for pictures they send pics of breeders from a bunch of the this sites sponsers and other cham breeders most of the pics are on the first page of google!
 
mpbm3,

depending on how many animals you are to get it may be cheaper to actually get your breeding stock in the US. Not even adding for sick or dead animals. As Trace said many exporters want you to get loads of different animals to fill an order. If I were to get back into panther chameleons and wanted fresher blood I would buy captive hatched specimen and probably most from Jim at chameleon company. He produces a lot of captive hatched specimen and has great prices and animals. There are also others who are breeding wild caughts or hatching out captive clutches from WC gravid females. Also others getting in WC shipments. Let them do the work and pay a little more for a healthy WC is the easiest way. Just got to look around.

I do, however, see and feel the same about importing for a hobby as I do the same. Its nice to get those fresh bloodlines or rarer species being bred in other countries. I will only import CB animals as I think there are enough WCs coming in to the US already. But that is besides the point. There are lots of scammers out there as you have been warned. There are even exporters who have good reputations with some and rip off others. My advice is is take your time, look around, research exporters and build a good relationship with them prior to buying. I would look in other countries for people producing animals from WCs who are willing to wholesale export if you want fresh bloodlines of panthers.

Here is the site with any information you will need on import/export in the US. If you have a question you cant find an answer to call the customer service line. I dont mind answering any questions but I do get irritated when the answer is clearly on the website or just a phone call to an authority away. Just being honest:)
http://www.fws.gov/

Jameleon,

Just because you do not need an import license does not make it any easier. That is really the most minute and cheapest part of importing in the US. I really dont know why some people think that animals coming from a different country will just show up to your door through any carrier in Canada. Not saying you do but. The animals must come with CITES documents. Who is going to make sure you have the right animals with correct documentation? Even if the food agency doesnt open up the package and inspect what is inside (which I feel is BS) it will still have to be seen by some customs authority I would think. If I am wrong there is not even any reason for Canada to participate in the CITES.

And Benny, pardalis do not come from Tanzania:D:p Who wants dirty African chameleons besides calypratus?:D:D:D
 
One of the sites was tradeaegea.com. I emailed one of the animal farms and he sent a list w/ prices and I thought the prices were wierd. Jacksons were $100 but Nosy Faly were $45. The guy said 20 was a minimum. The only reason I looked into is a friend and I wanted to beef up our collection. He and I wanted to see pics of the chams and all of them were crammed in a cage all together. It didn't look to clean! I got to thinking about the stress and other problems that could come out of the deal. I'm not up for the gamble and diffently don't want a bunch of sad broke down chameleons to take care of. On the other hand it could a be scam too!
 
Thanks Cainscham! I agree! I get my panthers from Jim at The Chameleon Company. Out of all the people I have emailed and talked to I trust him the most and look to him for my panthers and advice. I've told plenty of people he's the man to get chams from. I'm saving up for ambanja's so I'll be calling him soon!:D
 
Do any of the breeders in the US/Canada export their chams? like for example way out into south-east Asia?
 
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