Injury? Infection? Mouth rot?
- Thread starter Lennoncham
- Start date
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks.
Ya she said he may need a stitch or 2 after so I’m guessing there not using the cauterizing tool. I was kinda stunned at the price to think of questions lol.
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Good question. I’ll know for sure what it is after the surgery.
AnamCara
Chameleon Enthusiast
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chameleons/comments/2s9e72/papilloma_virus_in_chameleons_deforming_disease/
"
Transmission
The virus seems to be in body fluids (saliva) and it's not able to survive on dry surfaces for long. I’m going to assume that infected areas can transmit if direct contact is made or the skin is inoculated in some fashion.
Most cages are misted and it’s possible that both eye rubbing can infect the mouth and lids of animals from infected surfaces. I’m thinking that the rubber “bendible vines” might be able to harbor the virus under the surface and infect the nails of animals and inoculate cage mates when they walk on top on one another.
Infection is not transmitted from dam to her eggs.. or from sexual contact from make <-> female it does require some sort of “bridge” such as water licking from the same surfaces (leaf licking) and from perhaps eye wiping on surfaces that another infected individual has also rubbed on.
After initial infection some individuals are able to repress it's activity, others are chronically symptomatic and producing warty horn like growths from inflamed and deformed infected areas of cell mutation.
Treatment:
There seems to be no treatment available other than excising the infected areas. Some animals will show greater ability to suppress the virus than others if they’re well cared for while others will have a progression of ever increasing “horns” developing and spreading. In my experience, an individual can build it’s immune system and auto-amputate the growths at the base and reduce it’s affected tissues size over time
Viral suppression in an individual will still leave scars and disfigurement from the infection. As soon as the animal is stressed and fatigued the symptoms will return (weakened immune system). Viral infection, does not seem to affect lifespan as my panther males reached 8 years of age. Old age chameleons often do require some help feeding, which is normal for an chameleon of an advanced age the infection, the growths did complicate their ability to feed and the infection was not the primary cause of their deaths.
There are cases (images below) that seem that are the result of both eye rubbing and from inoculation from what I’m assuming were cage mates with infected nails. It’s also possible that direct contact with a leaf of other wet surface could be responsible."
From a founding mod on Reddit 4 years ago.
"
Transmission
The virus seems to be in body fluids (saliva) and it's not able to survive on dry surfaces for long. I’m going to assume that infected areas can transmit if direct contact is made or the skin is inoculated in some fashion.
Most cages are misted and it’s possible that both eye rubbing can infect the mouth and lids of animals from infected surfaces. I’m thinking that the rubber “bendible vines” might be able to harbor the virus under the surface and infect the nails of animals and inoculate cage mates when they walk on top on one another.
Infection is not transmitted from dam to her eggs.. or from sexual contact from make <-> female it does require some sort of “bridge” such as water licking from the same surfaces (leaf licking) and from perhaps eye wiping on surfaces that another infected individual has also rubbed on.
After initial infection some individuals are able to repress it's activity, others are chronically symptomatic and producing warty horn like growths from inflamed and deformed infected areas of cell mutation.
Treatment:
There seems to be no treatment available other than excising the infected areas. Some animals will show greater ability to suppress the virus than others if they’re well cared for while others will have a progression of ever increasing “horns” developing and spreading. In my experience, an individual can build it’s immune system and auto-amputate the growths at the base and reduce it’s affected tissues size over time
Viral suppression in an individual will still leave scars and disfigurement from the infection. As soon as the animal is stressed and fatigued the symptoms will return (weakened immune system). Viral infection, does not seem to affect lifespan as my panther males reached 8 years of age. Old age chameleons often do require some help feeding, which is normal for an chameleon of an advanced age the infection, the growths did complicate their ability to feed and the infection was not the primary cause of their deaths.
There are cases (images below) that seem that are the result of both eye rubbing and from inoculation from what I’m assuming were cage mates with infected nails. It’s also possible that direct contact with a leaf of other wet surface could be responsible."
From a founding mod on Reddit 4 years ago.
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Hmm since this seems to come out with husbandry problems I’ll put his health sheet to show his husbandry but I’m not sure what could be off.
Lennon care info
Chameleon Info:
* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Male panther chameleon. Just over 3 years old not sure exactly. Got him feb 14, 2017.
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Once a week or so.
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Crickets, silkworms, superworms, hornworms, BSFL, Surinam roaches, BSF, isopods, occasionally wax worms, butterworms, grasshoppers, dragonflies , praying mantis , stickbugs, etc.
Feed every other day.
Gutloading with home made dry gutload , repashy supervite.
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Zoo med repti calcium without d3 most feedings. Zoomed repti calcium wth d3 twice a month and herptivite twice a month.
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Mistking misting system. 8 am - 5 mins , 12 pm - 2 mins , 5 pm - 2 mins. Yes I see him drink.
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Brown with white urates. Tested last year came back clean. Getting a test done from today’s vet visit.
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Got him feb 2017. Never had any health problems before.
Cage Info:
* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
2x2x4 reptibreeze.
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Uvb- reptisun t5 ho 5.0 uvb bulb.
3x 6500k plant bulbs
Basking - 60 watt white incandescent household bulb.
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Basking - about 85-88
Floor - about 68-70
Night 65-68
Measure with digital thermometer and a infrared temp gun.
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Ranges from 45- 85+ at night depending on season. Misting system, live plants.
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Pothos, prayer plant, spider plant, Dracaena.
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Basement Cham room. Low traffic. Not near vent or fan. Small computer fan ontop to pull air out for airflow. Top of cage about 6 1/2 feet from floor.
* Location - Where are you geographically located?
Ontario Canada.
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
He has some type of growth in his mouth on left lip.
--------------
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes but they also said some chams can suppress it fine with good husbandry. while others seem to get bumps so I’m guessing husbandry plays a role.
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
I will give his cage a good deep cleaning on the weekend as well.
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
I am sooooo sorry to hear about this. I am hoping that it comes back negative. Let us know hun.
Thanks. Will do.
Thanks
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Just dropped Lennon at the vet. He said he’s gunna use a electric scalpel and cauterize the wound at the same time. Fingers crossed all goes well. Can probably pick him up around 5 or so.
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks.
Sending lots of good vibes your way! Let us know how he does hun.
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks
GoodKarma19
Chameleon Enthusiast
Keep us posted! Makes sense that the doctor is choosing to use an electrosurgical unit. Wishing Lennon a speedy recovery, and good histopathology results!!
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Just talked to the vet. Lennon is awake but still woozy from the drugs. The mass removal went good but there was a bit of a problem at the end.
He didn’t fully put him out cause the drugs are hard on chams. He had a soft gag kinda holding open his mouth and when he was finishing cutting the mass out Lennon bit down really hard and ended up breaking his jaw. He said it was kinda a jagged break so he was able to fit it back together easily. He had to drill a hole in either side of the bone and use a wire to hold it together. He said it should hopefully heal up fine with the way it broke.
He’s going to give me some pain meds to inject into worms to feed him. He said he should be ok eating but to feed soft feeders and really watch him eat.
I have to call them in a couple hours to see if he’s awake enough to come home. I’m sure he will explain it better once I get there and once I can see what he’s talking about.
He didn’t fully put him out cause the drugs are hard on chams. He had a soft gag kinda holding open his mouth and when he was finishing cutting the mass out Lennon bit down really hard and ended up breaking his jaw. He said it was kinda a jagged break so he was able to fit it back together easily. He had to drill a hole in either side of the bone and use a wire to hold it together. He said it should hopefully heal up fine with the way it broke.
He’s going to give me some pain meds to inject into worms to feed him. He said he should be ok eating but to feed soft feeders and really watch him eat.
I have to call them in a couple hours to see if he’s awake enough to come home. I’m sure he will explain it better once I get there and once I can see what he’s talking about.
