KatiLemons
Established Member
Oh good luck!! I hope everything works out for you little gal today! Keep us all posted!
Is this a bruise, infection, burn?
- Thread starter Osprey
- Start date
Pilotman800
New Member
Good luck!!! I wish the best for you and your cham!
Sad news
Got a call from the vet. Right ovaduct came out fine. Left ovaduct had ruptured eggs. These were hard and had a lot of buildup around them and her organs. He have me 3 choises.
1. Remove what he can. Not a good idea. Too much damage. Rising bill with little chance of success.
2. Sew her up and hope for the best. He felt the remaining mass would eventually rupture or rot, or both. She would die in as little as 2 days or 2 months. It would be a drawn out death and be painful.
3. Put her down so she would not suffer.
Hard choise. But I took his advice and put her down.
I took option 3 as the most humane thing to do. Now I have to tell my 9 yo daughter. That won't be easy.
I'll write latter with more medical details that may benefit others.
Got a call from the vet. Right ovaduct came out fine. Left ovaduct had ruptured eggs. These were hard and had a lot of buildup around them and her organs. He have me 3 choises.
1. Remove what he can. Not a good idea. Too much damage. Rising bill with little chance of success.
2. Sew her up and hope for the best. He felt the remaining mass would eventually rupture or rot, or both. She would die in as little as 2 days or 2 months. It would be a drawn out death and be painful.
3. Put her down so she would not suffer.
Hard choise. But I took his advice and put her down.
I took option 3 as the most humane thing to do. Now I have to tell my 9 yo daughter. That won't be easy.
I'll write latter with more medical details that may benefit others.
Cainschams
New Member
Ah man, that sucks to hear
Sounds to me like you did the best thing for her. Not easy but the easiest way is not always the best. Sorry about your loss.
Thezillaman21
Avid Member
chameleons are so tough i pray to god that nothing ever happens to zilla. hopefully she will end up laying her eggs. i disagree with the vet about the temp tho it should be cooler i would think.
KatiLemons
Established Member
oh I am so sorry for your loss. It was the right thing to do from the choices he gave you! Maybe you can get another cham down the road.
Pilotman800
New Member
Im sorry for your loss! You did everything you could.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I am sad. I am also disheartened by the number of health issues posted here. Some of the threads that I have read it seems like the owners new what they were doing yet their cham still developed problems. Prior to Puffs departure my wife and I were considering getting a second cham (probably a Panther). Now I am nervous about getting another.
So the vet said it is hard to tell what went wrong to cause this. The ruptured eggs seem to have been that way for about 3 weeks. I asked if the first vet I saw may have inadvertently ruptured them during the exam (I was concerned about how rough Puff was handled). He said that was unlikely because the amount of build up around the eggs looked like it took a while to develop. Also the xray from the previous exam supports this. The x-ray did not show as many clear aspects of eggs as he thought it should. It was more of a mass with one or two roundish outlines (I'll post pictures when I get home of the x-ray).
He showed me the inside of the right ovaduct. This was white in color and he said it came out very easily. Inside, most of the eggs were melded together. There was no way she could pass them.
The left ovaduct was what ruptured. The eggs were black and hard with green and brown and white tissue all around them and entangled in other organs including the liver. Like I said before, the post mortum exam confirmed that there was no way to remove this with out killing her and she would have definitely died from an infection if it was left in her.
Her bones looked and felt strong. No calcium deficiency. Egg bound was the only complication.
So how did this happen? How did the eggs rupture? We can only theorize that this happened while trying to push. After a while she gave up pushing and did not have the instinctive need to push. Maybe she fell in the cage when no one was around? Who knows?
How can this be avoided? Well she laid eggs for me 3 other times. I am pretty sure that I basically just got lucky those other times. I did not do the proper research about gravid female chams. Prior to this last time, I did not recognize that she was gravid quick enough. I did not provide a deep enough laying bin. And probably the contributing factor this last time .... I did not give her privacy. Heck, the second time she laid eggs, she did it from a vine, not in a laying bin (I'll post pictures of that when I get home).
I took all this for granted. I did not read enough prior to the first time she was gravid. Even though I got better at recognizing the signs and provided a better laying bin subsequent times, I never provided the privacy. My theory is she did not lay her eggs because of this. The urge to push passed and so did the opportunity to get the eggs out the natural way.
I hope people can learn from my mistakes.
I will do even more research before I by another cham. I will only by a male (I am not a chameleon sexist. I just want to avoid the complication and also get a more colorful specimen).
I will post pictures later today or tomorrow. And if I can figure out how to change the name of the thread, I will make it a more meaningful name that includes the word gravid or egg bound so that people can navigate to it easier.
Thank you all for your kind thoughts and words.
So the vet said it is hard to tell what went wrong to cause this. The ruptured eggs seem to have been that way for about 3 weeks. I asked if the first vet I saw may have inadvertently ruptured them during the exam (I was concerned about how rough Puff was handled). He said that was unlikely because the amount of build up around the eggs looked like it took a while to develop. Also the xray from the previous exam supports this. The x-ray did not show as many clear aspects of eggs as he thought it should. It was more of a mass with one or two roundish outlines (I'll post pictures when I get home of the x-ray).
He showed me the inside of the right ovaduct. This was white in color and he said it came out very easily. Inside, most of the eggs were melded together. There was no way she could pass them.
The left ovaduct was what ruptured. The eggs were black and hard with green and brown and white tissue all around them and entangled in other organs including the liver. Like I said before, the post mortum exam confirmed that there was no way to remove this with out killing her and she would have definitely died from an infection if it was left in her.
Her bones looked and felt strong. No calcium deficiency. Egg bound was the only complication.
So how did this happen? How did the eggs rupture? We can only theorize that this happened while trying to push. After a while she gave up pushing and did not have the instinctive need to push. Maybe she fell in the cage when no one was around? Who knows?
How can this be avoided? Well she laid eggs for me 3 other times. I am pretty sure that I basically just got lucky those other times. I did not do the proper research about gravid female chams. Prior to this last time, I did not recognize that she was gravid quick enough. I did not provide a deep enough laying bin. And probably the contributing factor this last time .... I did not give her privacy. Heck, the second time she laid eggs, she did it from a vine, not in a laying bin (I'll post pictures of that when I get home).
I took all this for granted. I did not read enough prior to the first time she was gravid. Even though I got better at recognizing the signs and provided a better laying bin subsequent times, I never provided the privacy. My theory is she did not lay her eggs because of this. The urge to push passed and so did the opportunity to get the eggs out the natural way.
I hope people can learn from my mistakes.
I will do even more research before I by another cham. I will only by a male (I am not a chameleon sexist. I just want to avoid the complication and also get a more colorful specimen).
I will post pictures later today or tomorrow. And if I can figure out how to change the name of the thread, I will make it a more meaningful name that includes the word gravid or egg bound so that people can navigate to it easier.
Thank you all for your kind thoughts and words.
KatiLemons
Established Member
My first cham is a panther Male ( he is a year now) and I just recieved my female in August and I have been riddled with questions on egg laying and such. I understand why you would find it easier to have a male because they are less worrisome but not compeletly Maybe down the road you will decide to get another female and now you have a little more experience than most people.
Maybe down the road you will decide to get another female and now you have a little more experience than most people.
camimom
New Member
I am sorry for your loss.
However, we as humans learn from our mistakes, not from our successes. While its horrible that you learned about your mistakes with the death of your cham, you now have more knowledge for the future.
As a side note- many people on this forum simply leave egg laying bins in with their girls everyday all day, so they do not miss the signs of needing to lay.
I hope if and when you are ready to get another cham, you have more knowledge on taking care of him/her and that this does not happen to you again.
And do not let this scare you off from females, just know now to leave the bin in forever, and do a bit more research on the signs of gravid so you don't have it happen again.
I know what its like to lose a pet, so I am so very sorry you have to suffer the pain.
However, we as humans learn from our mistakes, not from our successes. While its horrible that you learned about your mistakes with the death of your cham, you now have more knowledge for the future.
As a side note- many people on this forum simply leave egg laying bins in with their girls everyday all day, so they do not miss the signs of needing to lay.
I hope if and when you are ready to get another cham, you have more knowledge on taking care of him/her and that this does not happen to you again.
And do not let this scare you off from females, just know now to leave the bin in forever, and do a bit more research on the signs of gravid so you don't have it happen again.
I know what its like to lose a pet, so I am so very sorry you have to suffer the pain.
