Disclaimer, I didn't realize i typed so much until i had finished, but felt all of it would be worthwhile information, i apologize in advance if grammer is poor.
Chameleon Info:
Cage Info:
Current Problem
Mon-Wed 11-14 through 11-16, he isn't really eating mealworms, or crickets, offered him green horned worms (2) he was not interested. Still seems to be drinking at time his misting machine goes off and when i manually spray him. Didn't really pay a ton of attention to him due to having to run to work as well as this wasn't that weird for him to behave this way.
Thursday 11-17-16, in the morning I noticed he was kind of leaning against a Vine where two intersected, which was odd. I noticed he still had not eaten any of the crickets i fed him from the bucket in his cage from the day before. I then had to leave for work, when i returned he was in the same spot but now hanging upside down. Now i am getting concerned, he is still drinking at this point however.
Friday 11-18-16, woke up and checked on him, upside down again, he is extremely lethargic - eyes closed now in the morning which is weird because this is the time of day he is usually moving around the most - at this point i know something is up. When i got home he hadn't really moved, not really drinking but hard to tell if he is thirsty or not since i saw him drink the day before, when trying to remove him from the cage his grip was still extremely strong
Still friday night, drove him to the vet, i bought a feces sample along. This vet is equipped to handle exotic pets such as this, and thankfully is 24 hours. After the vet observed him and his feces sample:
1. he has threadworms, she wasn't sure how bad it is, but she said she didn't have to look very hard to find them, she has prescribed 0.05 ml Panacur Suspension daily for 5 days.
2. he did have some leftover skin from his last shed (a couple very small bits along his spine as well as in between his horns and a small peice near his gentleman bits.
3. He is still lethargic, at the vet, but his eyes he will open, but not all the way. The vet was not sure if a blood sample would be worthwhile, but also thought that perhaps a broad spectrum antibiotic could help him in case there is something else going on, so he is getting 0.03 ml of Enrofloxacin every 12 hours.
4. since he hasnt been eating i am givine him .5ml of a 2:1 water to Emeraid Carnivore Power to provide him Calories in this stage of sickness. This to be administered 1 time a day.
Alright, so that is where the vet visit landed, brought him home. At this point getting him off the stick in the carry cage he was sitting on ended up being a chore, he didnt want to move. I eventually coaxed him off. I observed him a couple times during the night, but he didnt really move much, didnt go upside which was good.
Saturday 11-18-16 through Monday 11-21-16
He is basically sitting there with his eyes closed in once spot every day, the only deviation from the routine is when i handle him to administor food/meds. At night he seems to end up on the mesh wall near the ceiling, i haven't seem him go there at this point. Have not attempted to offer live food due to eyes closed.
Sunday = clean his cage, replaced components such as the bamboo and vines, trimmed and repotted plants, sprayed plans down in shower which warm water. This was me trying to potentially clear away any worm eggs that could still exist.
concerned about his eyes, did some reading, some people have mentioned when both eyes are shut, it is sometimes caused by too much UVB and potential irritation to his eyes. I am reading about the coiled bulbs i have, back in 2009 there were studies that concluded they were to blame for some reptiles and amphibians being affected in similar ways,
Tuesday 11/22/16
Today i left his UVB lights off, gave him is antibacterial this morning, and he seemed to have perked up. His eyes are open, and he is following my finger around a little bit. I placed him back in his cage, and his eyes stayed open, he was sitting there and I was starting to feel pretty good, at that point he began to move around and i noticed his arms were flailing around as a person in dark room would walk. I think he is able to see shapes since he will look at me, and follow my finger, but it is almost as if he has no depth perception or clarity at this point. I misted him pretty liberally and made sure to get good coverage around the eyes. When spraying near his eyes, i turned the sprayer to more of a squirt, and shot very low pressure squirts around his eyes with distilled water. One thing that is odd is his eyes get kind of balooned up until he does what appears to push on them with his tongue from inside his mouth and pushed the water out. The water was crystal clear. To add to this, his eyes look normal, there is no glaze or milkiness or anything foreign appearing in either.
I offered him a mealworm today, he seems to have looked at it, or in the general direction of it, but was not interested. Shortly after that, he ended up walking down the vine as if he was blind, and then the vine ends and meets with the mesh wall of his cage, he climbs it until his horns hit the top and he just sits there, he was sitting there when i got home from work as well.
After discovering this, I called the vet and spoke to a tech, who relayed my information to the vet and called me back, bottom line they just want to see him again. I plan to take him back tomorrow night, but i am curious if anyone has any concerns or idea of what could be happening? I understand that treating Chameleons is pretty difficult, and from what i have said there is a lot of room for speculation.
Focusing online research on his eyes at this point, i am finding alot of similar cases where some level of burn is happening to chameleon eyes from too much UVB. It's the only thing i can think of other than a stroke or major trauma (which there is no signs of). I doubt he fell, his grip is still vice like. If he can't see, it could explain every single one of his symptoms, except the worms, which at this point I am thinking was merely a coincidence and he probably had them since day 1.
Thanks for reading.
Chameleon Info:
- Your Chameleon - Jackson Chameleon, Male, ~2.5 years old, I have had it in my care for 2 years.
- Handling - About once a month when necessary for cleaning, usually coax him onto a stick, then put stick in temporary cage. Have held him on 2 occasions just to see if he like it, he hated it.
- Feeding - Variety of cockroaches/mealworms/crickets/silk workm/green horned worms - He eats about 3 times a week. When he eats Roaches, usually 2 at a time, they are about 2/3rds the thickness of his head. probably 5-6 mealworms per feeding, i leave about 7-8 in a bowl, i generally discard these after a day.3-4 silk worms, 3-4 green horned worms. Crickets 4-5. I generally feed him the roaches/mealworms/crickets, but when the local shop gets greenies and the silkies in he probably eats 1 meal a month of each. I buy these from a reptile specialty store in St. Paul mn, gut load with flukers, fruit, etc.
- Supplements - Rep-Cal (phosphorous free) calcium with VIT.D3 = 2 times a month, Zoo-med repti Calcium without d3, 4 times a month - dusting. I have not been giving any of this stuff yet (just bought it today) Repashy Superfoods - Chameleon Calcium plus - initially i had thought he could be low on vitamin A but after more research I am unsure - i will explain more on this.
- Watering - His lights are on a timer 12/12 hours, as with the watering, every 2 hours he gets 45 seconds of misting, 6 times a day. The two sprayers with this device are at the top and are aimed to his most of the terrarium. He is usually in direct contact with the spray. I am using the zoomed repti-rain, i will probably 1-2 times a week spray him thoroughly by hand, ever once in a while he will want to drink during this in which i will spray water gently into his mouth, i will follow up spray him the next day until he stops wanting water and let it go back to normal schedule.
- Fecal Description - Poops look normal, dark brown with the white part which is usually white/yellow. He has been tested, has threadworms - will explain if you read on.
- History - Up to this point he has been more or less normalish based on what i have read. He will sometimes go on short hunger strikes of 3-4 days, probably a half dozen times since i've owned him, usual remedy is to present a different type of food to him, has never turned down the roaches, usually strikes on circkets/mealworms. Has never attempted to escape his environment when door is open etc.
Cage Info:
- Cage Type - zoo med repti-breeze 24x24x48
- Lighting - He has a 50w basking lamp, his perch is about 10 inches below that, temp in the light is 85-90 F depending on ambient temps winter vs summer usually, then he has a fixture with two exo terra UVB100 13w bulbs at 5.0 uvb rating, these have been replaced every 5-6 months. Today, I replaced his UVB setup with a 18" exo terra .5 uvb tube.
- Temperature - Cage floor is ambient, which is generally around 72 degrees, basking as mentioned before is 85-90F
- Humidity - i have a Zilla digital thermo and hygrometer that i move around to test temps, usually do this 2-3 times a year. Also an analog hygrometer that i move around to verify the digital one is functioning correctly. it is usually in the 60% humidity range right before the misting device starts up, then usually in the 90-100% for about 30 minutes afterwards.
- Plants - he is living in two Money tree plants. Pachira aquatica
- Placement - Cage is located inside of a closet, there is a vent about 8 feet away on the floor, this area is my home office, but he is unable to see me when i am sitting at my desk due to the folding closet door blocking his view, generally very low traffic. the Cage is 4 feet tall, about 2 feet off the ground, about 2 feet from the ceiling.
- Location - I am located in Southern Minnesota
Current Problem
Mon-Wed 11-14 through 11-16, he isn't really eating mealworms, or crickets, offered him green horned worms (2) he was not interested. Still seems to be drinking at time his misting machine goes off and when i manually spray him. Didn't really pay a ton of attention to him due to having to run to work as well as this wasn't that weird for him to behave this way.
Thursday 11-17-16, in the morning I noticed he was kind of leaning against a Vine where two intersected, which was odd. I noticed he still had not eaten any of the crickets i fed him from the bucket in his cage from the day before. I then had to leave for work, when i returned he was in the same spot but now hanging upside down. Now i am getting concerned, he is still drinking at this point however.
Friday 11-18-16, woke up and checked on him, upside down again, he is extremely lethargic - eyes closed now in the morning which is weird because this is the time of day he is usually moving around the most - at this point i know something is up. When i got home he hadn't really moved, not really drinking but hard to tell if he is thirsty or not since i saw him drink the day before, when trying to remove him from the cage his grip was still extremely strong
Still friday night, drove him to the vet, i bought a feces sample along. This vet is equipped to handle exotic pets such as this, and thankfully is 24 hours. After the vet observed him and his feces sample:
1. he has threadworms, she wasn't sure how bad it is, but she said she didn't have to look very hard to find them, she has prescribed 0.05 ml Panacur Suspension daily for 5 days.
2. he did have some leftover skin from his last shed (a couple very small bits along his spine as well as in between his horns and a small peice near his gentleman bits.
3. He is still lethargic, at the vet, but his eyes he will open, but not all the way. The vet was not sure if a blood sample would be worthwhile, but also thought that perhaps a broad spectrum antibiotic could help him in case there is something else going on, so he is getting 0.03 ml of Enrofloxacin every 12 hours.
4. since he hasnt been eating i am givine him .5ml of a 2:1 water to Emeraid Carnivore Power to provide him Calories in this stage of sickness. This to be administered 1 time a day.
Alright, so that is where the vet visit landed, brought him home. At this point getting him off the stick in the carry cage he was sitting on ended up being a chore, he didnt want to move. I eventually coaxed him off. I observed him a couple times during the night, but he didnt really move much, didnt go upside which was good.
Saturday 11-18-16 through Monday 11-21-16
He is basically sitting there with his eyes closed in once spot every day, the only deviation from the routine is when i handle him to administor food/meds. At night he seems to end up on the mesh wall near the ceiling, i haven't seem him go there at this point. Have not attempted to offer live food due to eyes closed.
Sunday = clean his cage, replaced components such as the bamboo and vines, trimmed and repotted plants, sprayed plans down in shower which warm water. This was me trying to potentially clear away any worm eggs that could still exist.
concerned about his eyes, did some reading, some people have mentioned when both eyes are shut, it is sometimes caused by too much UVB and potential irritation to his eyes. I am reading about the coiled bulbs i have, back in 2009 there were studies that concluded they were to blame for some reptiles and amphibians being affected in similar ways,
Tuesday 11/22/16
Today i left his UVB lights off, gave him is antibacterial this morning, and he seemed to have perked up. His eyes are open, and he is following my finger around a little bit. I placed him back in his cage, and his eyes stayed open, he was sitting there and I was starting to feel pretty good, at that point he began to move around and i noticed his arms were flailing around as a person in dark room would walk. I think he is able to see shapes since he will look at me, and follow my finger, but it is almost as if he has no depth perception or clarity at this point. I misted him pretty liberally and made sure to get good coverage around the eyes. When spraying near his eyes, i turned the sprayer to more of a squirt, and shot very low pressure squirts around his eyes with distilled water. One thing that is odd is his eyes get kind of balooned up until he does what appears to push on them with his tongue from inside his mouth and pushed the water out. The water was crystal clear. To add to this, his eyes look normal, there is no glaze or milkiness or anything foreign appearing in either.
I offered him a mealworm today, he seems to have looked at it, or in the general direction of it, but was not interested. Shortly after that, he ended up walking down the vine as if he was blind, and then the vine ends and meets with the mesh wall of his cage, he climbs it until his horns hit the top and he just sits there, he was sitting there when i got home from work as well.
After discovering this, I called the vet and spoke to a tech, who relayed my information to the vet and called me back, bottom line they just want to see him again. I plan to take him back tomorrow night, but i am curious if anyone has any concerns or idea of what could be happening? I understand that treating Chameleons is pretty difficult, and from what i have said there is a lot of room for speculation.
Focusing online research on his eyes at this point, i am finding alot of similar cases where some level of burn is happening to chameleon eyes from too much UVB. It's the only thing i can think of other than a stroke or major trauma (which there is no signs of). I doubt he fell, his grip is still vice like. If he can't see, it could explain every single one of his symptoms, except the worms, which at this point I am thinking was merely a coincidence and he probably had them since day 1.
Thanks for reading.
Last edited:
I'm sorry for your loss.
