Jackson's with mouth rot, treatment options

[tucc185]

I was checking my chameleon collection and I noticed my female Jackson's has developed some mouth rot and it's starting to look bad. I won't be able to get her to a vet until this coming weekend but I am pretty comfortable treating most reptile health problems at home if possible. My question is, what can I do for her right now to prevent the spread of infection? What would a vet typically prescribe? Would betadine or a topical antibiotic be ok to apply to the gums? Any help is greatly appreciated, I've never had this issue show up before.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Female T. jacksonii xantholopus. Farm raised, in my care approx 1.5 yrs. Last vet checked after her first litter, 1 yr ago or so.
* Handling - Never
* Feeding - Gutloaded crickets 3-4 times weekly, superworms twice weekly
* Supplements - Repashy super calcium once weekly
* Watering - Hose misting system, roughly 10 minutes daily in addition to natural rainfall
* Fecal Description - All clear, solid, white urates
* History - Currently gravid


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Zoo med reptibreeze medium
* Lighting - 100% natural florida sunlight
* Temperature - outdoor temps- mid 80's daytime, 70 nighttime low
* Humidity - humid, >75%rh most days
* Plants - All silk plants, biovine, driftwood
* Placement - Outside in backyard, close to house and in a partially shaded area
* Location - Tampa Bay area, FL

 

[carol5208]

wow your temps are way cooler in Tampa than they are in south florida! Sorry to hear your cham is having problems. I was just commenting on the temperature difference between us. I hope your chameleon is feeling better soon! are you 100% sure it is mouthrot?

 

[tucc185]

well, these temps are recorded from a digital thermometer inside her cage, keep in mind that spot doesn't get much, if any, direct sun. Typical daytime temps have been in the low 90's here, but it is still significantly cooler than South FL. It's definitely mouth rot, her gums are swollen, discolored, and she has a few visibly raw/infected sores in the corners of her mouth.

 

[millerman6401]

i used rot gaurd from lll reptile, i was on vacation when this happened to me and by the time i got back and ordered the meds it was wayy too late. was my first cham, a jacksosn too :/ ...as long as the cham is eating and drinking it should be fine till the vet apptment. but if u can get some rot gaurd from a local reptile store id get it!

 

[tucc185]

I'm not sure what the active ingredient in rot guard is but I'd rather use an antibiotic product like betadine or neomycin. Can anyone help me out with what's safe to use? I'd especially appreciate it if anyone who has had similar issues could share what treatment options there are.

 

[tucc185]

Anyone? could use the help asap please!

 

[kinyonga]

You said she's gravid so unless you speak to a vet its hard to know what's safe to use on her mouth rot. However, not treating it would not be a good option either as you could lose her and the babies. Wish I could give you an answer.

 

[tucc185]

Thanks Kinyonga, I was hoping someone might have had the same problem and been able to share what treatment was recommended, but for now I think I'm going to use a mild topical Betadine solution (7%) applied twice daily until I can get her to a vet. Betadine is a good topical but also should be mild enough to apply to mucous membranes. I've had it prescribed for eye infections in hatchling turtles so I think it will be a good treatment option for the time being.

 

[ataraxia]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/480-issues-head-region.html

 

[tucc185]

Thanks Atraxia, that is an extremely useful link. I started treatment today by manually removing plaques and swabbing the infected/inflammed areas with betadine solution. I'll keep updating as her condition (hopefully) improves.

 

[xanthoman]

jacksons mouth rot

mouth problems aren't uncommon in xanths, especially in the back corner, where the upper lip meets the lower lip, and especially if they are fed a lot of larger crickets. why would the feeder type/size matter? when they eat a fly or something, they generally get the entire feeder in their mouth , but, when they eat a larger crick or dubia, hornworm etc, then they often have 1/2 of the feeder sticking out the side of their mouth, as they chew, it creates a bug paste of sorts and this tends to stick in the corners of their mouth. they are not very good at cleaning this on their own.
i usually do a preventative cleaning of this area about once a month or as needed. in otherwise healthy chams the issue will often go away without meds if it is just properly cleaned/flushed. i usually use a qtip with the fuzzy part cut off, and a saline filled curved tip dental syringe for this. usually the prob is cleared up in a couple of days, sometimes a repeat cleaning is necessary,
if its farther forward in the mouth it may be a different issue.
as with all cham health problems, the longer you wait the harder it is to reverse.
ps betadyne is not an antibiotic, it is an antiseptic/disinfectant and contains iodine which, imo, makes it a poor choice for cham issues in general, but especially mouth issues.
personally i would start with saline, if that doesnt help, i would try hydrogen peroxide, (being careful not to get so much in the mouth that it is capable of draining down their esophagus or being aspirated.
if neither of those approaches work, then its probably time to switch to a broad spectrum antibiotic and probably consider vet care as the antibiotic would best be targeted to the infecting organism. hope that helps, jmo

 

[tucc185]

Thanks xanthoman, also very good info. Interesting point about the larger crickets, this female seemed to enjoy larger food items so I usually fed her larger crickets and superworms. Perhaps that led to the infection. In any case I completed the second round of treatment today. The infection seems to have cleared substantially with only some residual redness and minor swelling.
As for the betadine, more than one source I've read has suggested betadine as one of the best topical treatment options for mouth rot. A vet I spoke with (not a reptile expert, unfortunately)also recommended it as being one of the safest options. So what would you recommend? a topical antibiotic ointment?

 

[xanthoman]

i dont really like to provide summary across the board recommendations. first of all you dont even know for sure that it is stomatitis, although stomatitis is probably likely, there is a fairly long list other things it could be.

lets assume for a minute that it is stomatitis. it may not be just an issue of cleaning and apply topical antibiotics. stomatitis isnt something you just pick up off of a feeder, its not something that just happens like a paper cut.

imo, stomatitis is not the root of your problem, stomatitis usually displays as a symptom of a greater more advanced issue, usually systemic, often having to do with vitamin c, or cal/p ratio imbalance, ph or other blood chemistry issues, (ie often having to do with supplemental, and other overall husbandry issues).
basically imo, what this means is that there is something inherently off balance in your longer term care and husbandry issues that is causing enough stress to weaken his immunity.

you can clean the wounds, you can put topical antibiotics on it, and you may even temporarily clear up, most, or even all of the displaying symptoms, but that still doesnt address the real problem, the problem that brought it on in the first place, until you get to the root of the actual systemic problem that allowed stomatitis to take hold and display as a symptom, you will never gain a handle on the overall health of your cham.

imo, he really needs to see a vet and have the offending organism cultured, specifically identified and diagnosed. if it is stomatitis, my guess is the vet will probably prescribe a regimen of baytril, but that still is only a temporary solution, that still doesnt answer the question "why did he get it"

in order for forum member to offer any viable advice, you really need to fill out the help form in its ENTIRETY and repost. understand that otherwise healthy, well kept chameleons do not normally get or display stomatitis, ie imo, there is something inherently off balance with your overall husbandry.

in addition to help form info be sure to include the the follow info ;
is the issue entirely inside the mouth?
is there any pussy or cottage cheese looking discharge?
are the any swollen nodules resembling ingrown pimples?
are there grey or white looking areas or otherwise dead or water logged looking areas? or areas of disintegrating mucous membrane?
if possible try to post overall pics of your cham and if possible try to post macro pics of the infected areas.

im all for avoiding the vet, but, imo, in order to get a complete handle on this he really needs to have a complete blood panel.

in the meantime, you really should start re-evaluating all of your husbandry practices from the ground up, if you fill out the help form thats something that forum members could be helpful with.

does he have a dripper, if not he should have.
for almost any cham ailment, one of the best things any keeper can do in the short term is get them some natural sun , so if thats an option, i would discontinue d3 and start getting him natural sun.
also it would be good to avoid cricks for a while if possible, cricks have hard spines on their legs, they also have an undesirable ca/p ratio, imo both are likely issues in this scenario.
imo for now it would probably be a good idea to feed him smaller softer body feeders anyway like bottle flies, smaller silk or hornworms. (or for that matter just about anything other than what you have been feeding him).
would also probably be a good idea to temporarily discontinue the nite temp drop that he should normally get as a xanth, and avoid the use of infra red (which you should do anyway). dont forget to include what his urates/feces looks like. jmo