Just came home to find my panther dead :(

[.Scotty.]

i am absolutely gutted, totally gutted.

my male panther has died. I came in from work and immediately went over to mist him as i always do and found him on the floor of his vivarium. His whole face is black. He was fine when i went to work 8 hours ago.

Can anyone tell me what the cause is? The black mouth is like nothing i have ever seen before.

I am in bits

RIP George x

 

[JacksJill]

I'm so sorry this must be so traumatic for you.
If you want to you could fill out the how to ask for help form to get husbandry review and see if anything shows up.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/ It might provide clues but it would just be speculation.

The best hope of a concrete answer would be to have a reptile vet do a necropsy.
Again very sorry for your loss.

 

[Graves923]

Fill this form out detailing your husbandry and include recent photos if you have any. Please include as much detailed information as possible.

Sorry for your loss. There isnt going to be a way to single out the cause exactly without a necropsy by a vet but we may be able to narrow it down to possibilities.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[blue_cham]

So sorry for your loss chams can have dark color changes when they pass. Is it the inside of his mouth tho??

If you fill in this info, the forum members may be able to help better. Sorry again for your loss.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[blue_cham]

Fill this form out detailing your husbandry and include recent photos if you have any. Please include as much detailed information as possible.

Sorry for your loss. There isnt going to be a way to single out the cause exactly without a necropsy by a vet but we may be able to narrow it down to possibilities.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

Read my mind Graves. Sorry about the double form post from me Scotty

 

[.Scotty.]

So sorry for your loss chams can have dark color changes when they pass. Is it the inside of his mouth tho??

If you fill in this info, the forum members may be able to help better. Sorry again for your loss.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

hi it wasnt jist the inside it was the whole of his face around his mouth etc, all black.

ill fill in the form now and i have photos of him from only yesterday

 

[.Scotty.]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male Panther cham, 1 year old
• Handling - 4 times a week
• Feeding - a mixture of roaches, crickets and locusts. I fed him black crickets yesterday for the first time ever. I gutload the insects with fruit and veg.
• Supplements - exotera calcium used on all occasions. exotera multivitamin used once a week.
• Watering - mist twice a day for over 1 minute each time.
• Fecal Description - Pure white and pure black. never ever has there been any odd colours.
• History - no other history

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - wooden with several vents and glass front. 4ft high, 2.5ft wide.
• Lighting - pro reptile 100W basking lamp. pro reptile 30W UV bulb.
• Temperature - basking temp of around 32 degrees, bottom of cage 25 degrees celcius. nightime coldest temperature is 17 degrees.
• Humidity - 60 to 75 percent, however I only use a cheap gauge given to me from petshop.
• Plants - No live plants.
• Placement - He was always placed in our dining room however he was moved to our conservatory a few weeks ago. current temperatures in northeast england is around 15 degrees during the day.
• Location - UK

I have attached 2 recent photos. the one where he is on my shirt is only from yesterday. The other photo is from just over a week ago.


thank you

 

[.Scotty.]

he is looking up in one of those photos by the way just incase you think he is dehydrated.

I have attached another photo again from yesterday.

thank you

 

[Remkon]

i am absolutely gutted, totally gutted.

my male panther has died. I came in from work and immediately went over to mist him as i always do and found him on the floor of his vivarium. His whole face is black. He was fine when i went to work 8 hours ago.

Can anyone tell me what the cause is? The black mouth is like nothing i have ever seen before.

I am in bits

RIP George x

Sorry for your loss...

The black face doesn't have to mean anything. When chameleons die their pigment isn't being controlled anymore so they will show strange coloration.

 

[jannb]

I’m so sorry to hear about your boy. An autopsy is your best option to find out why he passed. I can tell you that the pictures from yesterday, he did not look well. The eyes were already starting to sink in. They do that when the are very ill and about to pass. Again, I am sorry for your loss.

 

[jamest0o0]

Sorry to hear this, though he does look to be dehydrated in all of the pictures.

 

[Kat_72]

so sorry for your loss. Have a necropsy done at the vet. Put to rest all the uncertainty of why. It’s awful to lose one I know all too well. My female passed recently aparantly of age and the toughness on her body since she laid so many clutches in one year. Only one was fertile or she was bred once rather. She laid 6 clutches starting at one year old when I got her and was two when she passed.

 

[Kat_72]

Reading back over your husbandry can I ask if you used a dripper? Any water source for him besides the mist? My males are set up on a mistking and it mists 6 times a day with two of those being 3 minute mistings. Before that I used a dripper and mister just to be safe. The temps are a bit off 62 degrees F is cold. 70 is about the coldest I like to see my temps go here in Pennsylvania with snow most of the year. You want it well ventilated but holding humidity also you need a good gauge a handheld temp gun is great but the zoo med stick up gauges work too. Live pants provide plenty of humidity pockets when staggered throughout the enclosure. With the extreme temp variation you need a enclosure that holds heat and humidity. I’m guessing here but I would say there were multiple factors at play. When temps are off they don’t digest properly can’t absorb calcium and vitamins, without a dripper I can guarantee he was not getting enough water. Humidity too needs to be available and In cold climates where we run heaters it’s dry air. I’d look into the way dragonstrand enclosure keeps theirs in clear side atriums perfect for cold climates. See my custom built is designed to hold heat and humidity but my large cage isn’t but still holds well with all the misting and plants which I need a lot more of since combining his cage with a second last week. I’m not trying to beat you up I’m just giving advice if you decide to try again. They are awesome family members and again I am soooo sorry.

 

[jamest0o0]

@Kat_72 while I agree with most of what you say. 62 temps at night are completely fine. I live in Pittsburgh and my temps get to the high 50s at our coldest here.

 

[Fiona's Mom]

So sorry for your loss.

 

[.Scotty.]

hi all

on further investigation i have found that the thermostat is broken. the Heat lamp is turned off at 7pm anyhow so the lamp had been on a total of 8 hours until i had managed to get home from work. if the thermostat was defective for all that time could it be that the chameleon has died of overheating?

so so sad, feel so bad for the little guy

 

[lycan_megura0523]

He was defiantly dehydrated or very sick.

 

[JacksJill]

If he was over heating you would have seen him spending more time in the lower portions of his cage.

 

[.Scotty.]

If he was over heating you would have seen him spending more time in the lower portions of his cage.

Could he die of overheating in the space of one day? he never ever spent much time at the bottom of the viv.

 

[Remkon]

Could he die of overheating in the space of one day? he never ever spent much time at the bottom of the viv.

Your chameleon would go to the bottom because it's cooler... The bottom end of your enclosure is not very likely to reach deadly temperatures unless it's heated from below and/or by a very high wattage heatsource.
Your misting was very limited, especially if you didn't provide a dripper. So possibly he has been struggling with his hydration a while and was the increased heat the final nail in the coffin.
Tho white urates do indicate proper hydration so he may just have had some other illness.

If you really want to know get a vet's opinion, otherwise take whatever lesson you learned from this and try not to beat yourself up to much.

Accidents simply do happen.