Juvenile Veiled Color?????
- Thread starter Courtney
- Start date
stressed????
that was my first thought..how ever he was green-ish and in a setup half the size they are in now but with atleast 20 other juvenile chams both male and female mixed. i live in florida and have spoken with other people and housing oposites sexes together. was told and read it should be fine with adequate space. i know its not recomended....i beleave alot of the truth behind it is there hasnt been enough research with the animal as a whole. My senegal grived its self to death when i moved and left him at my moms till i could re locate him also. they were very well aquainted. he ate fine drank fine and then my mom said he got sad and died. so to say dont handle dont house together dont dont dont.....we will never know untill we try. after all its not like anyone studies them in the wild and actually documents the activities of a single cham the way they do other animals. there is way too much infor out there that tells people what not to do..where is the info on what to do????????? housing chams is a lot like being a dr its all practice...not all practice makes perfect.
that was my first thought..how ever he was green-ish and in a setup half the size they are in now but with atleast 20 other juvenile chams both male and female mixed. i live in florida and have spoken with other people and housing oposites sexes together. was told and read it should be fine with adequate space. i know its not recomended....i beleave alot of the truth behind it is there hasnt been enough research with the animal as a whole. My senegal grived its self to death when i moved and left him at my moms till i could re locate him also. they were very well aquainted. he ate fine drank fine and then my mom said he got sad and died. so to say dont handle dont house together dont dont dont.....we will never know untill we try. after all its not like anyone studies them in the wild and actually documents the activities of a single cham the way they do other animals. there is way too much infor out there that tells people what not to do..where is the info on what to do????????? housing chams is a lot like being a dr its all practice...not all practice makes perfect.
Julirs
New Member
Chams do not "grieve" or die of sadness. They die of stress and disease, starvation, or predation. Just because juveniles CAN be housed together, there are times when they CANNOT be housed together. I have had to separate babies due to bullies and fighting. Sometimes the signs are so subtle that you do not even realize stress is happening. One cham will just stop eating because it fears the other one. It sounds like yours are just ready to be separated earlier than most.
And yes-there are people that do study them in the wild.
As far as telling people what NOT to do, after you keep 20+ chams for many, many years as many of the forum members and people telling you NOT to do these things are, I am sure you would be back saying the same thing we all are as far as handling and housing chams together.
And yes-there are people that do study them in the wild.
As far as telling people what NOT to do, after you keep 20+ chams for many, many years as many of the forum members and people telling you NOT to do these things are, I am sure you would be back saying the same thing we all are as far as handling and housing chams together.
jojackson
New Member
Whoa!!! Easy Juli, smooth those hackles Babe! 
Courtney, at the end of the day, its your lizards, do as you please, but remember, you asked for advice ok.
At the very least, house it seperately for a spell, say a week or so, and see for yourself how behaves and what colors it shows.
Guidelines given are just that, there is an exception to every rule, both ways.
We have only your breif description of your concern to go on, and have given you the most likely reason/solution.
I understand it was green-ish before in a less suitable housing, but keep in mind that most folk begin separating them at around that age, particularly because at this age it starts to become stressful for some individuals more than others.
Your lizard hasnt read anything 'they say'! Your first thought was correct, you must be learning something.
Much more detailed information from you, along with pics would probably yeild some useful information for all parties. Juli knows what she is talking about and offers you sound info and the benefit of years of experience, free.
best wishes with your lizards
Courtney, at the end of the day, its your lizards, do as you please, but remember, you asked for advice ok.
At the very least, house it seperately for a spell, say a week or so, and see for yourself how behaves and what colors it shows.
Guidelines given are just that, there is an exception to every rule, both ways.
We have only your breif description of your concern to go on, and have given you the most likely reason/solution.
I understand it was green-ish before in a less suitable housing, but keep in mind that most folk begin separating them at around that age, particularly because at this age it starts to become stressful for some individuals more than others.
Your lizard hasnt read anything 'they say'!
Your first thought was correct, you must be learning something.Much more detailed information from you, along with pics would probably yeild some useful information for all parties. Juli knows what she is talking about and offers you sound info and the benefit of years of experience, free.
best wishes with your lizards
Last edited:
it WAS VERY MEAN
you wouldnt know if my chameleon died from a broken heart unless you knew him. and unless you are an expert on his species..which i have found none...you would have some insight as to how intellegent he was. being the only pet in my house with very limited interaction with strange people. he knew he was a part of the family my mom would get home at sunrise turn on his lights give him breakfast and sing to him...if she didnt he would turn his back to her and anyone else for a few hours...by dinner he was back to normal stuff like that i cherish and miss .Otis will be forever be special its a shame i never got to introduce him to any of you. you may be judging a book by its cover. i may be young have only kept one cham but that is only b/c i waited a long time doing research andmaking sure i couldtake care of one properly. he had regular vet exams with a cham vet. i even had to force feed him several times once when my ex and i split and after 2 weeks he freaked out cause someone disapeared and never came back he was overly sensitive. i dont know why im explaining myself or otis' behavior to u . u care for ur chams like you do children same with dogs or any other pet dont you beleave they care for us...if not ur stupid and dont deserve the gift for careing for another living thing human animal or plant ...ur no better than the puppy mill breeders....just trying to earn a dollar huh???? if chams cant die of a broken heart and i trust u have factual evidence that they cant then u must still beleave they only change color to blend with the surroundings....funny they show their feeling through their colors...so if they can show feeling through colors dont they have the ability to feel thus have emotions.....
you wouldnt know if my chameleon died from a broken heart unless you knew him. and unless you are an expert on his species..which i have found none...you would have some insight as to how intellegent he was. being the only pet in my house with very limited interaction with strange people. he knew he was a part of the family my mom would get home at sunrise turn on his lights give him breakfast and sing to him...if she didnt he would turn his back to her and anyone else for a few hours...by dinner he was back to normal stuff like that i cherish and miss .Otis will be forever be special its a shame i never got to introduce him to any of you. you may be judging a book by its cover. i may be young have only kept one cham but that is only b/c i waited a long time doing research andmaking sure i couldtake care of one properly. he had regular vet exams with a cham vet. i even had to force feed him several times once when my ex and i split and after 2 weeks he freaked out cause someone disapeared and never came back he was overly sensitive. i dont know why im explaining myself or otis' behavior to u . u care for ur chams like you do children same with dogs or any other pet dont you beleave they care for us...if not ur stupid and dont deserve the gift for careing for another living thing human animal or plant ...ur no better than the puppy mill breeders....just trying to earn a dollar huh???? if chams cant die of a broken heart and i trust u have factual evidence that they cant then u must still beleave they only change color to blend with the surroundings....funny they show their feeling through their colors...so if they can show feeling through colors dont they have the ability to feel thus have emotions.....
miss contradiction
isnt stress and emotional reaction and u missunderstood the documentation people follow a single lion for decades to figure it out and that info is available every where where is the info on the wild baby cham till its death...all info available is speculation and one own experiences..... no harm done..just because you may have more experience with a multitude of chams doesnt mean my experence with just one wasnt as good. i obviously know its not recomended...i wants to know others experience on it and wether or not his coloring was due to the fact ive only had him 2 days which is my fault for not includeing that info no harm done im not mad just a little defencive
isnt stress and emotional reaction and u missunderstood the documentation people follow a single lion for decades to figure it out and that info is available every where where is the info on the wild baby cham till its death...all info available is speculation and one own experiences..... no harm done..just because you may have more experience with a multitude of chams doesnt mean my experence with just one wasnt as good. i obviously know its not recomended...i wants to know others experience on it and wether or not his coloring was due to the fact ive only had him 2 days which is my fault for not includeing that info no harm done im not mad just a little defencive
jojackson
New Member
Courtney, 'feelings' displayed through color change are normally indicative of health and or alarm for example, and for indicating readiness (or lack) to mate.
There is no indication they are capable of complex emotion, such as sadness.
When folk say a lizard is 'Happy', its not in the same way we are, merely relaxed/healthy/not threatened.
Anthropmorphising pets is common, and perhaps there is a grain of truth to it on some very basic level, but no, i dont beleive they really care less about us excepting as a source of food/release from confinement.
Initially most would naturally consider you a threat/predator.
Likewise there is no evidence eitherway they are capable of recognising one human over another, atleast by sight.
Familiarity/routine/pavlov effect is also often mistaken for emotional attachment/intelligence.
No harm in you beleving you pet lizard loves you though, provided you love it!
There is no indication they are capable of complex emotion, such as sadness.
When folk say a lizard is 'Happy', its not in the same way we are, merely relaxed/healthy/not threatened.
Anthropmorphising pets is common, and perhaps there is a grain of truth to it on some very basic level, but no, i dont beleive they really care less about us excepting as a source of food/release from confinement.
Initially most would naturally consider you a threat/predator.
Likewise there is no evidence eitherway they are capable of recognising one human over another, atleast by sight.
Familiarity/routine/pavlov effect is also often mistaken for emotional attachment/intelligence.
No harm in you beleving you pet lizard loves you though, provided you love it!
openminded
once again we agree on the fact that it hasnt been proved thats only because there arent enough people willing to do the research. there are alot of people in denial on here and i have been warned that these forums are mostly for breeders to show off. you strated off with good intent but quickly took a wrong turn from studing your chams in small numbers to breeding successfully. it is clear to me any advice on here isnt offered as fact but just opinion thats why the advice is free...other wise if i paid for it and you were wrong and my cham suffered from it you the advice giver would be liable for a malpractice............please note "you" isnt directed at any single person just my opinion on people who "collect" animal for personal gain that have no intelectual feed back. but beleave their personal experiences are as good as hard facts but there is a big difference between breeding and having knowledge.... obviously some people are less openminded to the study on the domestication of chams then they are to the successfull breeding of flashy colors for financial income.
once again we agree on the fact that it hasnt been proved thats only because there arent enough people willing to do the research. there are alot of people in denial on here and i have been warned that these forums are mostly for breeders to show off. you strated off with good intent but quickly took a wrong turn from studing your chams in small numbers to breeding successfully. it is clear to me any advice on here isnt offered as fact but just opinion thats why the advice is free...other wise if i paid for it and you were wrong and my cham suffered from it you the advice giver would be liable for a malpractice............please note "you" isnt directed at any single person just my opinion on people who "collect" animal for personal gain that have no intelectual feed back. but beleave their personal experiences are as good as hard facts but there is a big difference between breeding and having knowledge.... obviously some people are less openminded to the study on the domestication of chams then they are to the successfull breeding of flashy colors for financial income.
Syn
Avid Member
Ok, Courtney, before you go on about breeding for profit, please read this thread.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/cost-raising-69-baby-18467/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/cost-raising-69-baby-18467/
sobbing
that was real matureOh man-I was going to respond but my Mellers is sobbing. BRB.
jojackson
New Member
Courtney, with the exception of site sponsors, almost everyone here is simply fascinated and awed by chameleons and keep them purely as pets. Some do breed, but not for great profit, there is quite abit to it, alot of expenses, and the end of the day, you might make enough to cover what it cost you.
Even big commercial breeders dont take a second mortgage
As for study in the feild, scientist of various disciplins do undertake it, however most private owners like us are average folks without the means to fund such extensive research.
Many reptile keepers do take copious notes, some over many many years. (baring in mind the short lifespan of many cham species) Im sure you could find atleast one happy to share data. Its worth baring in mind, spending 5yrs in the feild tracking an individual animal for behavioural study to determin if they display human level emotions, is unrealistic and unlikely.
It occurs to me that if you have a great intrest in doing so, and the means to fund it, you might begin such research yourself.
Most of us would be very interested to read your findings.
Even big commercial breeders dont take a second mortgage
As for study in the feild, scientist of various disciplins do undertake it, however most private owners like us are average folks without the means to fund such extensive research.
Many reptile keepers do take copious notes, some over many many years. (baring in mind the short lifespan of many cham species) Im sure you could find atleast one happy to share data. Its worth baring in mind, spending 5yrs in the feild tracking an individual animal for behavioural study to determin if they display human level emotions, is unrealistic and unlikely.
It occurs to me that if you have a great intrest in doing so, and the means to fund it, you might begin such research yourself.
Most of us would be very interested to read your findings.
justjumpit621
New Member
That's not true courtney, many of us if not all have our chams because we love the species. Ofcourse people on here sell for profit, but you have to really love chams to do that seeing as it takes so much work to keep them alive and healthy. I like you believe animals to have feelings and I have many different kinds of animals that you can tell have some sort of complex thinking. Not to offend anyone on here, everyone has their own opinion, but I believe that over time humans have drilled it into their heads that they are superior over all other animals, but thats all we are, animals. And sure, I believe that my chameleon can have feelings, everything has feelings to some extent. Anger is a feeling that everything feels. Even insects. You can't honestly say that after you whack a bee and it comes after you it's not somewhat angry. Also, Molly's funny in a way that when I am feeding her and she's had enough she'll shake her head no when I offer her food. I don't know if this is a normal thing but I like to believe she knows what she is doing.
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