Keeping females from laying eggs with temperature regulation

[Anastasia_k]

I read on one blog that it's possible to keep females from laying infertile eggs by keeping a certain diet and lower temperatures. This sounds great as I'd like my baby to not have this stress and live a longer life, and reduce health risks such as egg binding. She is only 4 months now and hadn't been gravid yet, please let me know from which age she can start laying, so I can prepare in advance. Does anyone have experience with this method of reducing or stopping egg laying completely? Are there any risks or downsides to it? I wonder if it's so great and healthy for the female why isn't everyone doing it? Also, which temperature should she have in her enclosure now? It is currently 24 C (75F) far from the basking spot. She rarely goes to the basking branch during the day by the way and prefers to sleep on it at night. Should I keep the basking lamp on during the summer? It gets pretty hot here these days, up to 33 C. And another thing, I'd like to get her a nice tall terrarium when she gets bigger, over 1 meter tall, maybe 120 cm. The maximum size I've seen in shops is 90 x 60 x 40. Do you know any websites where I can order it and which deliver to Europe? My chameleon currently has a 40 x 40 x 40 cm glass exoterra terrarium with screen top but will need a bigger one soon I guess. I've read that many people recommend fully screened cages so I'm considering this option, however I live in Central Europe and the air is really dry here, in her current enclosure with live plants, dirt substrate (just good old dirt, no coconut, pebbles, bark or anything else that could cause problems if ingested) and heavy misting 3 times a day I manage to keep humidity to around 60% at daytime and up to 80 at night. I'm not sure if it's possible to keep it humid in a screen cage in my climate. Also, in winter it gets pretty cold here, even with central heating, and obviously I need to open windows once in a while to let some air in, so I'm afraid she can get cold and sick. Please let me know if you have experience keeping chameleons in Central Europe climate ( she is a veiled by the way). Sorry for writing so much in one post, I am new to this and have so many questions, but didn't want to create 3 more separate threads. I would really appreciate some advice on any of the above

 

[Extensionofgreen]

You can't prevent egg laying, only reduce the size of the clutch. They can lay as early as 4 months old, but most are a few months older.
@kinyonga has information about clutch reduction.

 

[kinyonga]

Extensionofgreen...I hate to tell you but I have stopped veiled females from producing eggs completely by diet and slight temperature reductions. These same females can be put back into production by changing their diet and raising thr trmperatures again. I can slow panther chameleons down but haven't been brave enough to push them far enough to stop them. What I do is described in this site...
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.ca/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Don't hate to tell me! I love new information. I have never kept female veileds and have never kept any female animals that weren't bred, so I don't have experience with infertile clutch management.

 

[kinyonga]

OK...I won't hate that I told you. I think why most people can't stop them is because they don't put them back on the diet quickly enough after they lay the eggs. IMHO if they are well cared for during the egglaying period, they should recover quickly after laying the eggs. I'm not a vet nor do I have a degree in biology so it's only my opinion or experience...but I think by putting them back on the diet so soon it slows down the number of follicles that will ovulate to zero. Just my opiniion.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I think what you're doing makes perfect sense. The ambient temps are high enough to allow proper digestion of food and keeping them on a rationed intake certainly will reduce ovulation. In humans, females are born with a predetermined number of follicles. If a female (models do this) reduce their caloric intake too below certain thresholds, they will cease to ovulate/menstruate. Of course, this is not encouraged in humans, but humans also don't waste resources developing fetuses from infertile eggs, the way chameleons invest the resources calcifying the shells and forming yolks. I think predators are used to far fewer feeding opportunities than they get in captivity and I doubt wild females invest resources in infertile clutches. They either mate or if resources are sparse, they don't ovulate.
It would be worth adding and addition to the Chameleon Forums care sheet about your methods for caring for female veileds, because we have a lot of people with veileds laying infertile clutches on the forums. Thanks for sharing.

 

[kinyonga]

I had quite a few infertile clutches from chameleons and they did well with them...no deaths from eggbinding...the problem in almost all cases is husbandry. Of course there are always some reproductive issues/imperfections/deformities that husbandry can't prevent...but most times there are egg issues it's husbandry related.

There were studies done to try on reproduction in veiled chameleons (one of which I was involved in in a small way) but no solution was found to the follicular stasis or dystocia (eggbinding)...and no method of birth control found either.

 

[Anastasia_k]

I had quite a few infertile clutches from chameleons and they did well with them...no deaths from eggbinding...the problem in almost all cases is husbandry. Of course there are always some reproductive issues/imperfections/deformities that husbandry can't prevent...but most times there are egg issues it's husbandry related.

There were studies done to try on reproduction in veiled chameleons (one of which I was involved in in a small way) but no solution was found to the follicular stasis or dystocia (eggbinding)...and no method of birth control found either.

I have read your blog and wanted to try this method, was just wondering if more people tried it and if there are any potential risks. So I am quite certain now that my female is gravid. I did not expect it as she's only 4 months now, maximum 5, and I thought she would start laying after 6-7 months. She is a lot more nervous in my presence last 2 days, gets all tense as soon as I enter the room, and is showing what I think to be gravid colors. She also went down her branch twice yesterday and seemed to be looking for something, and even tried to escape when I opened the door. her belly also seems inflated. I made a laying bin in a big flower pot (8-10 inches deep) and put a basking light over it, let me know if you think it's a good setup. Her cage is quite small and I was planning to move her to a bigger one after she's 6 months. I don't know if this bin is ok or she needs a lower one so its more at the bottom. I've read that juveniles should eat as much as they want so I've been feeding her 12-16 small to medium supplemented crickets per day. I'm worried now that I've been over feeding her and caused her to become gravid so soon. Can you please let me know what I should be doing from now on with feeding and husbandry? I'm really worried and confused. Also, she needs to go to the vet on Tuesday for her second course of parasite medication and I'm wondering if there's a way to make it as stress-free for her as possible. She was usually ok being handled but hates being taken from the enclosure against her will, and now she seems especially stressed out. I've put some blankets around her home for now so I don't disturb her too much.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I'm pretty sure there is spur there, indicating a male. Veileds frequently get more antisocial as they get older.

 

[Anastasia_k]

Haha yes... I was just researching after someone suggested it in another thread and it really looks like my chameleon is actually a dude. That's good news because no more worries about egg laying and he will probably live longer, but I'm upset that he got so aggressive now, we were just starting to make some progress a week ago I thought. Should I move him to a bigger enclosure now? I was planning to do it after he turns 6 months but he seems to go up and down more often so maybe he needs more space?

 

[kinyonga]

As soon as I looked at him I knew it was a male by the pattern and then the clear spur showing!
Saved me an explanation. You can move him to a bigger enclosure any time now and get rid of the flower pot laying bin!
Nice looking male BTW!

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

As soon as I saw the colors... I was like... hey, my female doesn't have pretty colors {pout} . Congrats on your boy... I'm wishing I wasn't dealing with egg-laying issues!

 

[Anastasia_k]

Thank you! They told me it's a girl in the pet shop where I bought him, and I never bothered to double check good thing there is this forum! I'll get him a bigger place soon. Not sure whether to go with glass or screen since I live in a really low humidity area. Even in his current enclosure (glass with screen top) it's hard to keep it at the right level.