warpdrive
Avid Member
Its what these 2 do with the Poo that they arent tellin us that scares me!!...
a man gata eat, right?
Harry
Laurie's first poop/urate...*sniffle*
- Thread starter warpdrive
- Start date
a man gata eat, right?
Harry
Hey! That looks better. Did you end up taking any of the samples in to the vet?
BTW, as gross as it is to most people, poop is a great way to check the health of an animal. I've woohooed many times over some nice white urates, or a "normal" poop after a critter is sick. My husband, of course, thinks I'm insane, but that's besides the point.
BTW, as gross as it is to most people, poop is a great way to check the health of an animal. I've woohooed many times over some nice white urates, or a "normal" poop after a critter is sick. My husband, of course, thinks I'm insane, but that's besides the point.
warpdrive
Avid Member
DAY 6:
she ate 4 crickets today.
one from my fingers, 1 from my cricket scooper/hand fed, the forth cricket she hunted down fast as it jumped out of the scooper and into her plant.
she got 3 mistings sofar, her next one will be one hour before lights out.
she got a 4 hour dripper treatment.
I SAW HER DRINK TODAY!!!!!!
about 1 hours after her first misting she clearly drank, even though there was not much drops left on the leaves.
I found this poop on a leaf late in the day so it is dry as a bone.
Harry
she ate 4 crickets today.
one from my fingers, 1 from my cricket scooper/hand fed, the forth cricket she hunted down fast as it jumped out of the scooper and into her plant.
she got 3 mistings sofar, her next one will be one hour before lights out.
she got a 4 hour dripper treatment.
I SAW HER DRINK TODAY!!!!!!
about 1 hours after her first misting she clearly drank, even though there was not much drops left on the leaves.
I found this poop on a leaf late in the day so it is dry as a bone.
Harry
Pure
New Member
Harry this is a long thread so forgive me if I missed if this has been brought up. I was just reading a thread that Dave Weldon commented on. What he said in this post is remarkably similar to what we are seeing in your lovely poop pictures.
That doesn't explain the other issues she is having but does give some insight as to why you are still having urates with this color/texture.
Personally I would link this breeder to this thread and demand an exchange. No way in hell if that cham was well hydrated should you still be seeing urates like this. You have kept a cham long enough to know this is a bunch of BS. We've all been guilty of missing a misting session from time to time, and it doesn't take more than one or two good misting sessions to turn urates white again. "IF" the cham was in a healthy state to begin with. There is something seriously wrong with this girl and it isn't right for you to have to go through so much trouble with an animal you just bought.
If after the breeder reads this thread, she is still on the offensive about the subject I would take the matter to the Board Of Inquiry Let them hang this breeder there.
That doesn't explain the other issues she is having but does give some insight as to why you are still having urates with this color/texture.
Personally I would link this breeder to this thread and demand an exchange. No way in hell if that cham was well hydrated should you still be seeing urates like this. You have kept a cham long enough to know this is a bunch of BS. We've all been guilty of missing a misting session from time to time, and it doesn't take more than one or two good misting sessions to turn urates white again. "IF" the cham was in a healthy state to begin with. There is something seriously wrong with this girl and it isn't right for you to have to go through so much trouble with an animal you just bought.
If after the breeder reads this thread, she is still on the offensive about the subject I would take the matter to the Board Of Inquiry Let them hang this breeder there.
warpdrive
Avid Member
what David said is that if supers are being used alot, urates may have an orange tint to them...NOT ORANGE URATES.
in other words, the urates will be white, an "off white", slightly "tinted" orange.
Splat displays this when I feed him supers even for one day. his urates will be an off white, slightly tinted orange. not white urates with specs of yellow or orange in them. but an off white color.
I've seen this in other reptiles too, and is normal.
Pure said:
what Dave continues to say is that urates like this can be a sign of kindney falure or that if it doesn't get better fast can lead to kidney falure...and I agree.
Pure said:
unless I'm wrong (and I know full well that I'm not), urates dont get this bad over night, even due to stress related in shipping and illness.
urates turn this bad over days and weeks under normal care.
there is NO WAY the breeder could miss something like this when daily feedings and mistings are happening.
urates change color slowly.
you'll notice that while the urates are getting better, they are doing it slowly, a drop more white witnin it each time she poops.
with all that said, she has not displayed the behaivior of the first two days since.
on the first two days she did bask normaly though.
on the last 3 days I find her more away from the basking light and for the last 3 hours I find her ready to sleep far away from the light.
I've even caught her eyes closed about an hour before the lights go out.
yet she is now basking after she was fed an hour ago. I just checked while typing this...*sigh
I've also had 2 PMs warning me that they have perchased chameleons from this breeder that has had coccidia.
if this is the case with this female, then getting an exchange is NOT an option as I found out she was housed with her two sisters.
I also want to thank you for that other link to Board of Inquiry...I have not looked too closely at it, but I've always felt that this forum should have a feedback section so that we can freely post both the good and the bad of the sellers on this forum. in other words, too many new people here are getting sucked into buying items or pets from unreliable people and have no way of warning others about it. the good news is that this breeder has at least called me on the phone or sent me PMs almost every day to hear about how Laurie is doing.
the bad news is that there are no real pet laws regarding anything but cats and dogs, and if this was a dog, I would be able to get my money back and/or the price of the vet bills that I'm about to pay for her well being.
I just found a good reptile vet in the city and the cost for the exam is $80, the cost for the fecal float is $45-$50 (the person on the phone can't remember), and I didn't ask about bloodwork so I'll just say it's about another $50.
that's $180 in vet bills for a $180 chamelion, not even in my house a week.
meds if needed will be extra.
may the good loard bless me if I need meds as I just don't have the money and will have to beg the vet to bill me for them.
if by chance Laurie gets a clean bill of health besides the dehydration, then great.
but if by chance there are more things wrong with her, I'll be PMing the breeder and asking for them to pay for the vet bills and required meds.
my only hope is that they are willing to do this as I just don't have this kind of money and it's comming at a time when I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE DEALING WITH A SICK PET TO BEGIN WITH.
Pure
New Member
Your Welcome.
My concern reg the urates, even now, is what Dave said about the crystal looking particles in the urates that are still present in the last pic you posted. I would have the vet do the blood work to make sure the kidneys are functioning properly.
And regarding the coccidia, if this is who I think it is..I've heard this also. Let's leave the naming names for the BOI though.
My concern reg the urates, even now, is what Dave said about the crystal looking particles in the urates that are still present in the last pic you posted. I would have the vet do the blood work to make sure the kidneys are functioning properly.
And regarding the coccidia, if this is who I think it is..I've heard this also. Let's leave the naming names for the BOI though.
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laurie
Retired Moderator
yeah, it's alot easyer now I think.
I do hope she starts drinking better though. it's sad to see such bad urates.
btw, I'm just posting it here for my records. I don't mean to make you get skinny from not eating.
Harry
From your mouth to God's ears! I wish I would get skinny, I am trying so all helo is welcome.
warpdrive
Avid Member
yeah, about the urates, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.
I watched her poop and she had two drops of liquid come out after she droped it.
not sure how normal this is....
at least her urate is white, maybe with a touch of orange tint in it, but realy white...I don't like what her poop looks like though.
DAY 7:
Harry
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warpdrive
Avid Member
DAY 8:
while Laurie rests way too much away from her lights the last 3 hours last night (even caught her with her eyes closed again), she is quite active and basking durring the first 3 hours she has been awake.
she ate 3 silkies sofar today...she goes after them far faster then crickets.
the second one she didn't even let me place it on a leaf, she shot it right from my tweesers.
she seems to poop like clockwork, 2pm sharp. 3 hours after lights on.
today is the big day. I'm taking her into the city to see a vet.
I will have an update as to what the vet says late tonight as I don't have an appointment untill 6pm my time.
I want to thank everyone who has been watching this thread, and also the breeder who has tryed to keep up with the status of Laurie.
I also want to give a big thanks to Nic for his advice, and the forum member Laurie who has been my good friend and has given her time for my little girl.
bless you all for being there in my time of need.
Harry
while Laurie rests way too much away from her lights the last 3 hours last night (even caught her with her eyes closed again), she is quite active and basking durring the first 3 hours she has been awake.
she ate 3 silkies sofar today...she goes after them far faster then crickets.
the second one she didn't even let me place it on a leaf, she shot it right from my tweesers.
she seems to poop like clockwork, 2pm sharp. 3 hours after lights on.
today is the big day. I'm taking her into the city to see a vet.
I will have an update as to what the vet says late tonight as I don't have an appointment untill 6pm my time.
I want to thank everyone who has been watching this thread, and also the breeder who has tryed to keep up with the status of Laurie.
I also want to give a big thanks to Nic for his advice, and the forum member Laurie who has been my good friend and has given her time for my little girl.
bless you all for being there in my time of need.
Harry
warpdrive
Avid Member
no, her lights come on at 11am, and go off at 11pm.
it is dark in my apartment with the shades closed...and what neighbor wants to see me get dressed through the first floor windows of my apartment? I'm qute, but not that good looking.
I'm also a late sleeper, so the times are perfect for me, and without the light from the sun, my chams too.
Harry
Miss Lily
Chameleon Enthusiast
no, her lights come on at 11am, and go off at 11pm.
it is dark in my apartment with the shades closed...and what neighbor wants to see me get dressed through the first floor windows of my apartment? I'm qute, but not that good looking.
I'm also a late sleeper, so the times are perfect for me, and without the light from the sun, my chams too.
Harry
OK, just wondered that's all! Chams know when the sun comes up and goes down though - even in a room with no windows. I read that somewhere - probably on here, lol! It gets dark here now before Amy's lights go out and she knows and puts herself to bed even though her lights are still on!
Don't quite know what to say about the getting dressed bit, ROFL!
Too much information, me thinks! Still, congrats on a lovely white 'wee'!
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm wading in late on this long thread, but reading through it gave me an idea about her symptoms. Electrolyte imbalance going along with dehydration, shipping stress, possibly a period of overheating in the box (was she shipped with a heat pack? Temps can fluctuate a lot in a closed box) could well have caused this. I think I've read descriptions of seizures, tremors, disorientation, etc. in other animals suffering from severe electrolyte imbalance. What seems telling to me is how she is improving.
Sometimes an individual out of a clutch has a sensitivity or weakness the others don't. And, until a big stressor happens it might not show up.
I bought a beautiful 4 month old cbb fischeri from the Kammers some years ago. He arrived in fine shape and did perfectly well for about 8 months. I was gutloading, dusting, hydrating, etc. the same way the Kammers were. Believe me I was keeping track of this because at that time fischers were just not bred in captivity. Then over a month he seemed "off" and went downhill, died suddenly. Stumped, I had a necropsy done including tissue analysis. His kidneys were necrotic but he didn't show other signs of simple dehydration. The Kammers still had some of his clutchmates and they were fine. Diet sensitivity? Most likely, as at the time montane species' sensitivity to dusts was fairly new. Congenital defect? Possible disease? We just couldn't tell. Sometimes things happen to one animal and not another. Still, if this cham was not acting normally before she was sold the breeder shouldn't have shipped her.
Sometimes an individual out of a clutch has a sensitivity or weakness the others don't. And, until a big stressor happens it might not show up.
I bought a beautiful 4 month old cbb fischeri from the Kammers some years ago. He arrived in fine shape and did perfectly well for about 8 months. I was gutloading, dusting, hydrating, etc. the same way the Kammers were. Believe me I was keeping track of this because at that time fischers were just not bred in captivity. Then over a month he seemed "off" and went downhill, died suddenly. Stumped, I had a necropsy done including tissue analysis. His kidneys were necrotic but he didn't show other signs of simple dehydration. The Kammers still had some of his clutchmates and they were fine. Diet sensitivity? Most likely, as at the time montane species' sensitivity to dusts was fairly new. Congenital defect? Possible disease? We just couldn't tell. Sometimes things happen to one animal and not another. Still, if this cham was not acting normally before she was sold the breeder shouldn't have shipped her.
